Chimaera
359
Hmmm...
This is a fascinating discussion. Let us also bring into account "advanced research". It is a matter of received wisdom that the ne plus ultra of traditional watchmaking is Switzerland - on that basis most everyone finds comfort in Swiss manufacture. But is that wisdom susceptible to challenge if we bring into account exotic materials such as Silinvar? Is it necessarily the case that a beautiful Swiss pastoral setting is a better place to design and manufacture such things than, say, an ultra high-tech "clean" facility in Taiwan?
Now, the Geneva Seal is a wonderful thing but, of course, it exists in part to "protect" the traditional watchmaking industry in Geneva. Nothing wrong with that. But if PP (or others) want to experiment with exotic things then life becomes complicated if "tied" to the Geneva Seal. Kari, would be interested to know what your (laden with "new" tech) 5550 has by way of seal. Since the Geneva Seal requirements are quite specific in some cases but otherwise rather general, I suspect that the 5550 could still qualify despite the exotic materials. So, was PP's introduction of the PP Seal a look to the future when evolutionary or revolutionary techniques/materials would make it impossible or prohibitively expensive to meet the Geneva requirements? Equally, was the introduction of the PP seal a hedge against future changes to the Geneva Seal requirements, over which PP would have no control?
To be fair to PP we must also bring into account a loosening of Geneva Seal requirements, as well as a tightening. There is no doubt that the high-end watchmakers have expressed frustration at the arrival in the market of upstarts that have done the barest minimum to comply with the regulations and yet get a Seal of identical/equivalent standing to those that have invested much more in quality and design. Certainly, the sub-text of PP's move and the impression they sought to give in 2009 was: "Geneva Seal not rigourous enough for our tastes, so we are introducing something much more difficult and challenging by way of the PP Seal".
Many "speculate to accumulate". Here, I am just speculating!
Patek Philippe 3940G 175th Salmon dial
A few weeks ago I had posted a very poor pic and a number of you asked for more. Here they are, still not great (iphone!) but a bit better. As you can see, this incarnation of the 3940 is somewhat of a curiosity, not just because of the salmon dial (which...
Always found the 3940 more to my liking compared to the 5140.
But both are very nice. It's just that the 5140 is little bigger in case diameter. The 240 movement is a reliable movement , very elegant. Thanks for sharing. Best Geross.
I spent a long time with the re-edition 5070P
and had a quick look at the salmon dia 5070G. Both are stunning. The dial construction of 5070P is even nicer than in the original and perhaps the dial of the re-edition is also darker. I can imagine that it is very difficult to show the dial of your 3940...
Fantastic!
First, thanks a lot for sharing these pictures with us, as it is a watch very rare impossible to meet today. I've seen the 3940P not long ago and was impressed by how elegant it looked, especially about the size. It is very unique due to the salmon dial a...
Thanks for sharing..
the pictures of the Salmon dial and also carefully pointing out the similarities and differences. This certainly has helped to answer most questions. Cheers !
Logo
they should make the Patek Philippe logo larger! Sorry but it looks hideous. 3940 with old spacing was much more elegant
Suum Cuique
"Hideous" is a wee bit harsh, but I know that you are a first series guy and (though new here) I see that all views are respected! Thanks all for your comments.
Re:
Rcg, Chimeara took the time to share his detailed thoughts and pics about his rare 3940G, a watch we won't have the chance to see that much. If something is not your taste, I'm sure there is another way to say it, rather than "hideous". You wouldn't like ...
Logo2
Mark. It's not a personal comment. It's s comment towards the new 3940. I love the 3940 and I think it looks awesome in the salmon dial. But the fact they took an elegant watch and added the oversized logo from the 5140 make it look unattractive! The eleg...
Hmmm
I think the discussion is cluttered by reducing comparisons to "it's a 3940" or "it's a 5140". As may have been concluded from my first post, the reality here is that the dial is in fact neither of those - it is a mixture of both, together with some altog...
I do not think
that a discussion "should the numbers be this or that" adds any value. We should just admire your rare perpetual and enjoy the very special colour of dial. I have just one question: I just had a close look at the London Exhibition version of 5070. Indeed,...
That question about the seal: bravo Kari!
It proves that you have reached a considerable amount of connoisseurship. Best Moritz
Re: and my guess
I completly understand rcg, but it is the post of a new owner (not just a review of a watch in a detailer's shop) and it could be taken personnal. Saying " make it look unattractive" as you do now is much nicer! Of course we appreciate your honest opinion...
Beautiful , congrats to you on a very special piece, just to clarify, these are not 175th
collection pieces, but lireally a handful of special dial pieces,utilising "left over cases etc) Best Imran
Geneva Seal
Hi Kari, sorry have just seen your post. The 240Q bears the Geneva Seal. This I guess is consistent with the London pieces utilising older movements - I think PP introduced their own seal in 2009ish.
You are almost late for service!
First let me congratulate you on your fantastic catch. I find it beautiful and well composed and simply a great collectors watch and a piece I would like to own myself. On the other hand I find it also a "strange" watch as it is like a concoction made of ...
Fascinating...
..fascinating, fascinating. Thank you for your comments and for furthering my education. This 3940 is indeed a strange one! Just one point of possible disagreement - I think the Geneva Seal certification process is limited to an evaluation of quality of w...
Geneva Seal compared to Patek's Seal
Hi there, in asking you, and others, in my last post "Why that?" I was "hoping" some people could answer it, although I have a possible answer myself to why Patek is using a Geneva Seal bearing movement in a special edition. I am not a fan at all of the P...
Geneva / Patek Seal
Hi Moritz The difficulty is that as far as I know PP have not published the specific criteria needing to be met to merit the PP seal. In contrast the Geneva Seal is the subject of formal legislation, and regulations made thereunder. As such it is more tra...
exactomundo!
That is also my opinion and question: is the watch still Swiss watch??? Or more specific: a watch made by the traditional Swiss way? To bear the Swiss logo it needs ONLY to be made more than 50% of the value in Switzerland. The Geneva Seal is going much, ...
It would be exiting to learn that Pateks
are 49% produced in China... But I doubt. My understanding is that the watches are more or less 100% produced in Switzerland but also outside Geneva. Anyhow, for me it is difficult to believe that some parts would be produced outside Switzerland. If Patek...
Hmmm...
This is a fascinating discussion. Let us also bring into account "advanced research". It is a matter of received wisdom that the ne plus ultra of traditional watchmaking is Switzerland - on that basis most everyone finds comfort in Swiss manufacture. But ...
Yes, interesting.
But to be honest, I am not very worried about the "Seal" let it be Geneva Seal, Fleurie, COSC or PP Seal. The manufacturers are hardly satisfying the demand of quality by their clients with different seals. The end products must correspond with the expect...
Yes, precisely.
As I said earlier, I get the necessary "warm & fuzzy" feeling from these pieces being PPs, not from one or other Seal. PP's No. 1 asset is reputation and we all know that those are very difficult to earn, and very easy to lose!
"Advanced research" and silicone are incompatible with traditional (!) watchmaking
Silicone parts are "clones" of a clock work part that will always fir perfect, function perfect each time they come out of the "oven", without no need of ant human touch. These parts are incompatible with traditional watchmaking. It is a "great" modern fe...
Yes and no :)
I share your interesting point of view: what brings new material is not traditional anymore as the handmade crafting exercize is out of the equation for a Silicon part. That's why the word "traditional" is very important in your sentece. However, I would ...
Traditional watchmaking does not mean it has to be exclusive :-))
That screws and other structural parts are mass produced does not matter. What matters is that these parts have been polished. Silicone parts will come out with the perfect surface without any need for polishing. In my opinion silicone parts are free of a...
Dear Count,
I agree 99%. BUT: with silicon some benefits are achieved. I.e. longer power reserve, better accuracy, etc. Steamships were the original modern vessels and they were the romantic option in passenger transportation. The latest generation of passenger ships...
My dear Kari,
I love your vessel comparison! It is not to turn back the time to have or sustain romance in our lives or in our watch lovers live's in particular. Steal for instance was able to reach mystical status when it was developed thousands of years ago, as with ...
My Dear Count,
This is getting interesting but I can't express myself as well as I would like to. English is still a foreign language to me... Last time I spoke about vessels - let us speak about cars and take another perspective. I'm expecting a Porsche Targa 4 GTS. I ...
Off topic
I couldn't resist to reply to your "Porsche turbo vs atmo" remark... as I just had the same thoughts since I heard about this in the 991 2nd Phase (to come in September maybe) or, more recently, the Cayman/Boxter. I thought this was maybe the right time t...
Thanks Mark,
Often development is good, sometimes it is serving more the producer/other interests. When it comes to cars, I have my taste. I am often driving my wife's BMW 435ix Cabriolet and my god how I hate the turbo engine! With watches the same applies. I can tol...
the clue....
...as to whether I agree or not is in my name, or try "TVR Chimaera" - 5 litres of agricultural and fully mechanical V8. No electronics, no gizmos!
Instead of "finely manufactured movements" only, I would say
that you would add the "traditional" adjective. Because, for instance, some movements with Carbon or Titanium (like Richard Mille for instance) are very finely manufactured movements too. They are even adding more shock resistance, wear and tear resistanc...
Indeed,
"traditional" is a better word. Like said, English is not my mother tongue. I have tried the six cylinder BMW M engine. I liked much more their previous V8 engine. What I like in the traditional flat six is the feel of power without any kind of turbo dela...
haute couture would not "run" (pun intended) if not made in France orr Italy :-)
I also love to buy from time to time pret a porter pieces and I take it for granted that the attire is made in France or Italy and check it also. Lower brands in fashion have to be made in a European country for me. Anything else is not worth the money an...
I think this is a great feature.
It shows that the movement is really new old stock like expressed by Patek. Best, Kari