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Hand-engraved madness: yes or no?
I find the Patek Philippe officer-style, hunter caseback, Retrograde Perpetual Calendars ref. 5160/500 and ref. 5160 quite fascinating.
But I sometimes wonder if this hand-engraved madness isn't a bit too much.
What do you think?
They all measure 38 x 11.8 mm and are powered by caliber 324 S QR, except for the more recent ref. 5160/500R-001, which is powered by updated caliber 26-330 S QR.
Best, Emmanuel
A/ REF. 5160/500
The distinctive elements of this reference are:
- Blackened Breguet numerals
- Specific hand-engraved motifs (different from ref. 5160) with a classical mix of volute and foliage patterns inspired by an early pocket watch in Patek Philippe’s museum collection
- Ornate Patek Philippe scroll emblem engraved on the caseback.
credit: @johnson.collection & @woohoo_time
credit: Horobox & Wristcheck
B/ REF. 5160
Announced by Patek Philippe at BaselWorld in 2010, the ref. 5160 was released in a small, undisclosed number as part of its Rare Handcraft collection.
During its entire run, it is believed that less than 20 examples were made in 18K white gold, possibly even far fewer in rose gold.
The distinctive elements of this reference are:
- Painted Roman numerals
- Specific hand-engraved motifs (different from ref. 5160/500)
- Calatrava cross motif engraved on the caseback
1/ Ref. 5160G
credit: European Watch Company
2/ Ref. 5160R-001
credit: Phillips
Review of the ref. 5160/500G-001 by Tim Mosso
Review of the ref. 5160R-001 by Tim Mosso
Hand-engraved madness: yes or no?
I find the Patek Philippe officer-style, hunter caseback, Retrograde Perpetual Calendars ref. 5160/500 and ref. 5160 quite fascinating . But I sometimes wonder if this hand-engraved madness isn't a bit too much . What do you think ? They all measure 38 x ...
Does it mean that you like it or not ?
I'm sorry but I'm not sure how the word "gross" should be understood here! Best, Emmanuel
Thank you, it's what I thought, but wasn't sure.
I'm not surprised that these engraved pieces or so polarising/divisive. Best, Emmanuel
And what about the non-engraved ref. 5159?
Does it appeal to you more? credit: Ticking Way ...
I certainly appreciate them, I’m however thinking about the scratches and dents due to regular wear, so much wasted time on engraving.
Yes, I know, most will never see a wrist on the daily bases anyway… The Breguet numerals for me tho!
I don't think a regular wear would bring that much scratches and dents,
to the point of ruining the engraving work, at least. But I might be optimistic! Breguet numerals are really fine here, yes. Best, Emmanuel
You definitely are;)
I’m certain that with wear, that bezel will wear out quite quickly due to the soft metal, just look at the old pocket watch casebacks.🥂
They are probably an acquired taste…
And one I am unlikely to acquire 😉 While I understand the workmanship component for me the result is a lot less than if there was a regular, smooth case 🤷🏻♂️ But if someone enjoys it - all the better for them 👏🏻👍🏻
I happen to like them
with a preference towards the white gold. I'm reminded of fancy chess pieces vs the Staunton design. Or a very ornate backgammon board. For me, I lean towards simplicity so given an opportunity and enough money I'd go for the 5159G. As a musician, there a...
Can't i have them both?!
Completely different looks. The Breguet numerals open up the dial. The roman numerals make my eyes go towards the center. If I had to choose, the Roman. Thanks for your usual great post!
You describe the difference very well, and I would also choose the Roman variant.
Thanks a lot for the very kind words. Best, Emmanuel
I had never seen the Breguet number version...
...I kind of like it, but it seems 'off' somehow...
Quite fascinating, yes.
But until I get to see one in real life, I can't really tell if I would enjoy wearing such an engraved timepiece. Best, Emmanuel
Yes, I understand your point of view.
But one can find the simple idea of a hand-engraved case appealing or, on the contrary, repelling. Best, Emmanuel
Honestly? Not working for me.
While impressive when considered in isolation, I don't find that the engraving does anything for the overall design of the watch. In fact, the center of the dial just winds up looking messy. From a designer's perspective the engraving on the case and lugs...
Your point of view is very interesting.
I would need to see one in real life to know how I really feel about these watches, the Ellipse included. Best, Emmanuel
Hi Emmanuel, this style is
fine for me because I love craftsmanship of engraving, baroque style!👍
This sort of engraving is definitely not for me.
5159 I like better of the two, but still not for me.
I think these are wonderfully done.
My favourite is WG with Roman numerals, although I wouldn't want to pay for one. I much prefer the cleaner 5159G at less than a third for the going price of these. Not with me now, but the 5159G is an awesome piece, and fits perfectly on my wrist (there a...
Really wonderful!
As I said, I wonder if the engraving wouldn't feel too much for me and, yes, I might like the 5159 more, just like you. I really have to see one in real life someday. Thanks a lot for sharing yours! Best, Emmanuel
I like the engravings better than the overall base watch layout
I hope to finally get exposure to an engraved watch case if I get allocation for the Montblanc Versailles LE 8.
Oh, fingers crossed for this allocation, then!
Do you mean this incredible piece??? ...
Yes, this one, dear Emmanuel! I am not too optimistic
they will give it to me but still hoping.
I tried one on years ago in Seattle...
...beautiful as an art object, but a bit ornate for me, who rarely wears anything but T-shirts and jeans...
I can understand that.
I'd like to get that chance of trying one on in real life. Best, Emmanuel
I am big fan of engraved watches and these show why .
I think it has a certain charm .
Oh, yes it does, definitely!
I just wish I could see one in real life to get a good sense of how it looks and feels. Best, Emmanuel
I like and admire this watch.
However not one I can wear on a regular basis for fear of the scratches and dents as has already been pointed out above. Likely to end up a safe queen. Personally I do not favour the size increase of the 5159. I prefer the older 5059
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
The 5059 is very appealing indeed. And it might be the best option. Best, Emmanuel credit: @ramsss on reddit ...
I personally love the engraved pieces.
It’s not for every day but as a formal watch I think it’s great. The retrograde function is. Way undervalued complication in general. IMHO of course.
I completely agree with you concerning the retrograde complication.
I love it. As for the engraved case, I'd like to see one in real life to get a true sense of how much I like it or not. Best, Emmanuel
It's what I read on Collectability...
Check here: https://collectability.com/product/patek-philippe-hand-engraved-perpetual-retrograde-calendar-ref-5160r-001/ Best, Emmanuel
Impressive but slightly over the top
While the hand graving is artistically stunning, it’s a bit too much for my personal taste. The 5159 is my personal dream watch and the epitomization of classical, timeless elegance. And, supposedly, even Laurent Ferrier called the 5159 a “legend” and his...
I didn't know LF had such a high appreciation of the 5159!
Thanks for sharing. Best, Emmanuel
I think the 5160G is a fantastic watch in every way. It is a watch I would be thrilled to wear, although it is not a watch I expect to buy. If I were to head in that direction
5159G would be my choice to buy, particularly the standard model with Roman numerals. It is a great watch and while quite expensive it is a relative bargain in today’s world of brand new Pateks. That said already owning the 5496 in platinum which I like e...
Dear Patekova,
I also prefer the Roman numerals on these references, so 5160 or 5159 would definitely be my choice. Price wise, the 5159 is definitely a relative bargain and I hope I’ll be able to see one in person someday, as I think I would like it very much. Your 549...
Dear Emmanuel, Thank you for the nice things you say about my 5496. Neither 5159 nor 5496 as reflected by market prices are very popular.
Particularly surprising to me is how generally unloved 5496 is despite platinum Calatrava style case, innovative dial with raised date markers and for me me, overall beauty. I would think the retrograde function would be very popular, but it seems the opp...
There's unfortunately no 5496 available in France for me to try one on.
I'll be patient. In the meantime, I might be able to try on a 5159G. Have a nice day. Best, Emmanuel