Officine Panerai

Was on the phone yesterday with a friend who is an expert on restoration. Got talking about "The Vintage References", and the chapter with the models that had an Angelus. Shown in the book were at least three differently finished movements with slight differences in the plates. Also, in our discussion we considered some specimens of the same caliber movement that have come to market and looking at how these have aged.

The question is what is the likelihood that 200 (or 150) can be restored to "like new" condition given what can be seen in the books, and real specimens today? My friend comments that restoration is always possible, but that it WILL always leave a trace. His conclusion is that it is simply not possible to restore all of these movements to the same level of "newness" without fabrication of some level or complete fabrication. In his opinion it's more likely that Panerai reproduced these movements than an overhaul that yielded these results. Could it be possible that the story of having 200 movements in storage was really just that? It could be, I don't know that it would matter anyway since a reproduction with the license is still as good as an original. The difference, however, is that experts in the field should be able to refute the vintage movement theory real easily, why would Panerai take such a risk?

In any event, at this point just theories and more mystery to add to the other many mysteries of this Brand.

as these caliber 240's were not 'found in storage'. They were sold to Panerai By F. Ferretti, so we have good documentation about them. They were not exactly 200 since there is a base movement and a module. I cannot remember the exact number, but I do have the documentation somewhere

 

Cheers,

 

Asi

Love the debunking of these mysteries.

I would love to see some photography of the old movements, or documentation as you say.

Very curious of their state prior to restoration, and how these compare with the movements in Volker's book.

The next question is why would Ferreti have these?

Thanks Asi

He's accumulated all the rare vintage PAM's many many amny years ago, and seems like he bought everything up when no one ever heard of Panerai.  So why not buy up these movements too?

I don't know Ferrerti and have never met him before, but if I knew what he knew years ago, I would have done the same thing too!

Cheers,
Anthony

how much knowledge can be found on this forum...I suspected these were not just spare movments held by panerai....I think we must change your name to Asi007.....Nothing gets by you amigo..Best guillermo

Would like to know more about these " resurrected " movements...



Best,

Nicolas

No message body

have any photos?
Cheers

Hope you like them.

BTW I read somewhere that the 150 pieces were made from 1,000 movements,,,

Sam

This message has been edited by samwan on 2009-06-08 18:38:28

Thanks for sharing!

Yes, I'm impressed by the quality of your pics!

As for the movements, I'm laughing...

Well, from 150 movements, we go to 200, then to 1 000...

First the 203, then the 267...

The magic of Panerai, or the Mystery of the multiplication of the movements.

Quite Biblic...



Best,

Nicolas

there were 190 base movements and 200 modules sold to Panerai.

 

Cheers,

 

Asi

Asi you are just and plainly correct… as usual. Now with years of experience and knowledge, real hard works on the topic, often finding difficult to write lengthy paragraphs, but always engraving accurate and factual statements.  The rest is about sewing ;-)

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Does this mean mean an ebauche vs complete movement?

...what I was wondering.

Asi,

What is defined as a "Base Movement" and a "Module"?

Thanks in advance,
Johnny Mac

nt

A clock movement with a back wound key would need a module to become a crown movement.

Thanks, Guille and Asi.

came in some variations marked by a suffix letter. There were options for regular/alarm, crown/key winding and level of finish. The base movement was identical with added modules for the desired function. You must remember that this was primarily a table/travelling alarm clock.

 

Here is an excerpt from a period catalogue (this is the earlier version of the Cal. 240, but not much different in concept).

 

 

 

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Asi

...in the photos above?

The "Angelus" emblem in Sam's photo seems to be a little "rougher" or at least machined deeper versus Anthony's.
Plus, the "FIFTEEN" in Sam's photo looks a little "stair-stepped" and Anthony's is "in-line".
Maybe its the lighting and the angle of the camera?

Finally, did the vintage movements state "FIFTEEN 15 JEWELS"?

Sincerely,
Johnny Mac

the vintage Angelus 240 used in Panerai watches was not the decorated version and did not state '15 jewels'.

 

Cheers,

 

Asi

These movements were NOS. Panerai purchased them from F. Ferreti. Minor modifications done to them only, these movements are the same as Angelus provided with different modules for their travel clocks, caliber 240.

There it is in three sentences!

Thanks to all, specially to Asi, for providing information that I (and for sure many) was unaware of.

Guille

These 190 movements were sold by Ferretti in 1996 to pre-V Panerai (OP SPA).

 

Cheers,

Asi

Alepos

the thing that really bothered me was that those movements were sold for 57 euro EACH !

When i see what they ask for a 203 EVEN at list, I feel robbed

Sorry, still love Panerai a Lot but a 57 euro movement in an 17.000 euro (listprice)  watch is something I can't accept

 

If you start with adding value mate, you'll most likely pass on most of high end watches.

 

Cheers,

 

Asi

Why is a Picasso or Monet painting millions of dollars?  The paint, brushes, and canvas only costs 50 bucks...

- AT

This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2009-06-13 09:02:02