Officine Panerai

Here are some of his questions, and I would love to hear everyone's thoughts/opinions. .

Thanks!

Cheers,
Anthony

Question #1:
How do you see Panerai as a company and its products moving forward?  More high end, special edition pieces or turn into what Breitling is now?

Question #2:
If you owned a PAM127 and PAM249, do you think these 2 as a whole would appreciate in value more than a PAM2A and PAM27A / 29A ?

 

Question #1:
How do you see Panerai as a company and its products moving forward?  More high end, special edition pieces or turn into what Breitling is now?

I think if we just look back over the past five years you can see one thing.  Panerai is keep a good stable of base model's like the PAM210 as the base Radiomir and the PAM 112 and similar Luminors.  In short they know that if they want to continue creating new fans they need to keep a good stable of watches that are within reach. 

They are also continuously offering very good "value" SE or limited editions that are also accessible to good portion of the market .

Above and beyond this you have the new in-house segment show their commitment to being a long term player not to be held hostage buy movement supplier, not there is any such action today.  They we go out of the stratosphere in the high fashion / haute Hologerie which a statement in itself and does not affect the mass Panerai fan or disturb the brands heritage which is a tool watch.  So if 10% -20% of the range is "high-end" , I am happy that the other 80% hit the core market and creates room to attract new entry level fans.

Just my humble opinion.

Bill

Slowly have 10% of the range dedicated to complications and in-house movements and maybe reach a max of 20% after it has established itself as a major player in this new territory.  And keep the original customer base satisfied with the rest of the 80-90%.

Cheers,
Anthony

Maybe I'd be fired for that but who cares???
I don't see Panerai as a high end manufacture with tourbillons, MR, or PC...
It's for me a total non sense.
I'd appreciate if they create a solid a,d basic in house movement, and another with a long power reserve, but a Tourbillon, or a PC or a Minute Repeater in a tool watch???
This has non sense!
Honestly, is a Luminor the place to put in a Tourbillon?
This is THE Watch to dive with , to practice sports with, or for people whose job is to go to war...This is NON SENSE, IMO..
Complications which are in the spirit of the brand are welcome.I'd prefer a mechanical depht meter than an electronic one.
I'm OK for a chronometer.
A long Power Reserve is great...8 days, 10 days, 15 or 31 days...
If Panerai wants to create High End watches, so they'd better create a new case to go this way...IMO.
As for the 127/249:
They already keep better value than the 27/29.
The 2 A or B tritium will also keep better value.
All the historical models, with this touch of beauty(tritium) will be keepers, for me, as they respect or are the best example of what Panerai was or still is:
A TOOL WATCH, and one of the best tool watches I know and appreciate.
Just my 2 old French Francs.

You and everyone else are always free to speak your mind here as long as you have phrased your post politely, of which you have done, so don't be afraid to voice your opinion.  Remember, PuristSPro's motto is "Passion, Opinion, Information " so opinions (good or bad) are always welcomed here.

There are some Panerai collectors who only buy Pre-V, vintage, and A/B series and don't bother with any of the new models.  There's no problem with that at all.  How does the saying go?  One's man garage is another man's treasure (sorry i don't know the exact phrasing :P)

Hmm that's an interesting idea Nicolas!  Creating a new case for the ultra high end pieces.  I personally always wanted Panerai to introduce another case (the 1950 case to me really isn't a "new" case) and I hope they do!  If if they ever do, I'm curious to see how this new case will look like. 

Cheers,
Anthony

1.  I used to follow Breitling rather closely, but became tired of the brand when it was not sufficiently innovative to retain my interest.  The Navitimer (once a favorite of mine) and the Chronomat have seemed to be the basis of the brand for decades.  How many of the same basic two watches can you buy?  When Breitling tried to develop more complicated models, there didn't seem to be sufficient interest to support.  I believe too many dealers meant massive discounting which undermined the brand.  Typically resale values for Breitling have been about 30% or less of retail.   Panerai watches have generally retained most of their value because production has been kept behind demand for most models and not vice versa. 

I believe that 2007 was a mixed year for Panerai, too many similar models and not enough choice for those familiar with the Panerai brand to motivate additional purchases.  The Panerai community is one of its best assets, Panerai needs to stimulate the community each year with at least 2 exciting and reasonably affordable watches.  For 2007 the tourbillon could be considered exciting but the price point makes it hard to consider and I am not sure that deliveries have started even this late in the 2007 year.  Most, if not all the recent years had special editions or regular production which qualified but IMO 2007's product line was not as strong as prior years.

Breitling and Panerai's decision to produce a watch with reference to the Bentley and Ferrari was not, in my view, a good idea.   I share the view of some that there is little reason to buy a watch which promotes a car you do not own, and how many with an interest in watches own a Bentley or Ferrari?  GP had the Ferrari relationship for what seemed to be over 10 years and ran it into the ground, I am concerned that it will adversely affect Panerai particularly if production is too great in relation to demand.  Most AD have a relatively few Panerai but significantly more Ferrari watches in the case, is that a bad omen? 

2.  Although I would not consider any prediction of future value to be accurate, I would pick the PAM127 and PAM249 to out-perform the PAM2A, PAM27A, and PAM29A if the values are based on today's values rather than initial pricing.  If I had all 5 (which I don't), and could keep only three, I would retain the PAM127, PAM249, and the PAM29A.  That being the case, it seems fairly logical, based on my perspective, that having two of  three keepers would likely mean the 2 47mm watches will have greater long term appreciation. 

because I totally agree with you in "How many of the same basic two watches can you buy?"  This is why I never understood the Panerai collector who has 50 PAM's.  Most of them are simply the same watch but with different dials.  It's something I never understood and probably never will cause it's not in my mentality to "accumulate".  Whatever floats your boat is the only thing that matters though.

I'm still undecided about the Panerai Ferrari line.  Since this is only the 2nd year, it's too early for me to decide on how I feel about the Ferrari line, so I'll have to wait another 2 more years so I can see where Panerai is going with the Ferrari watches.

Cheers,
Anthony

Anthony,

They sounds like the sort of questions that Panerai marketing would ask.

Or they should be asking if it's not them! 

Regards,

MTF P.V.

This message has been edited by MTF on 2007-10-22 05:16:49

No message body

q1.

I am having trouble justifying my love for Panerai these days. I am still a big fan, but I prefer to wear AP and sold or in the process of selling my Panerais. I think they lost direction and clearly following Breitling. If you search Paneristi you will find my post talking about this Breitling trend going back 2-3 years already. I am not a fan of any new models that were shown in 2007 and would not buy any at no matter what price point. I don't have a problem with special editions or complications, but I do have a problem with their marketing and model line up. Why there are no models that clearly everyone wants: 1950 47 base, 47 auto, 47 power reserve, 47 mm cerramic. Even for 44 mm where is PVD, cerramic, power reserve without offset of a power hand... I can go on forever with my wish list... 8 days auto 1950 in 47 mm... 47 Radiomir that looks like 21 and auto. Why not? I might be asking for too much, but this is what I would prefer over the stuff that they been putting out for the last few years. I would suggest keeping it simple, but within a range of models I listed above. Going into 20K price range with tourbillions will not making me want to buy a watch. If I want to spend 20K I will got for AP, VC or Patet. It is that simple. Keeping the models same 44 and Radiomir without nice 47 MM or attractive new 44 will also be a big mistake for them. They will overflow the market and suffocate as Breitling did.

q2. I had 27A. Was my first Panerai back in a day... Before they hit it big... And then I had 1950... I think 27A is limited to 500 and it will only go up in value. Sky is the limit and I don't see Panerai bringing it back ever. Not arrow hand for sure. 1950 will be reproduced! In many skins. There is already 1950, MM, 8day. It is a great watch and 1950 will also be very much in demand always, but I think 27A/2A/29A will only go up and up. More that 1950! There is only hundreds of each and no chance of being rereleased. 249 - that a different story. I don't see what the fuzz is all about at all and there is almost 2000 of them. It will follow 1950, but still I don't think it will be more in demand than original 2A/27A/29A. Just my opinion.

What about 232? Why that watch hasn't taken off I can't figure out... Must be a sleeper.

This is why he hasn't introduced a 1950 47mm base, 47mm auto, and all the other watches you've listed.  If you were the CEO of Panerai, would you want to release all these models at the same time?  Heck no.  Panerai is a business and here to generate profits for its parent company Richemont, so it is in Panerai's best interest to maximize profits by slowly introducing all the models you've suggested.

It would be suicide to release all these models in a year or 2.  Why expose all your artillery in the first battle?  You need to save some to win the war!

And the PAM232, my guess for the reason why it hasn't taken off is because it's too similar to the PAM210.  The PAM210 is a 45mm Radiomir base (which first better in general on the wrist for most people) and there's the 47mm base PAM232.  Same movement in both, and frankly too close of the same watch IMO, and so maybe that's why the watch hasn't done will as compared to the PAM249.

If Panerai made a 45mm PAM249 the year before, I bet you the 47mm PAN249 the following year wouldn't fair that well.  Just some food for thought

Cheers,
Anthony

 

I agree about not getting everything out now! You missunderstood my point. The question was about direction Panerai was going now. I think they are not presenting anything to die for (2007) and going Breitling road for now. Mr Bonati clearly knows what He is doing, but I think what they introduced in 2007 wasn't what I would of liked. Just was plain or not direction I would of prefered from Panerai. I heard rumors of Mare Nostrum and that didn't show up. Nothing in the 1950 47 mm case. Nothing that would make me excited. Maybe I expected too much. I am holding my breath for now for 08. 47mm 1950 case: auto, ceramic, base, pvd... Mr Bonati please give me something to spend my money on!

Also why Panerai is getting that expensive? I know... I know... Euro... Dollar... This and that... But current prices are getting out of hand!

Unfortunately when retail prices go up, they rarely ever go back down.

And when prices keep going up, that's when the consumer begins to expect mandatory discounts when purchasing from an authorized dealer.

Cheers,
Anthony

And to this day if I go to a local Panerai dealer they only have or two watches sitting the case. Either a Ferrari or Radiomir...Something that not too many want... Smart marketing...