Omega

Hi all,

I bought a Omega Seamaster or at least I thought I did.
In sellers add there was not a single word about Ranchero and price was not high, so I doubt that I was scamed or cheated.
I recieved the watch and on my big surprise when I opened it ref. nr. was 2996 and when I checked it on Omega vintage site only hit was ranchero???
There is an original worn leather strap with Omega buckle, original crown and original glass.
Judging by the shape it has Rancheros case, but dial says Seamaster???
And dial does not look like it was repainted or refurbished, it has some patina, light scratches.
Has anyone experienced something similar?
 A Ranchero case and movement with other dial?

Even hand could maybe fit, as Omega says "Mat black or mat silver, with super-luminous hour markers and "broad arrow" or "dauphine" luminous hands (radium)."
I guess I have "dauphine" hands on mine Seamaster.
Closest Seamaster with cal. 284 I can get is ref. 2938, but case is not similar to mine.
Any clues and hints are more than welcome.

i would guess its a Ranchero with replacement dial and hands which sadly makes it pretty much of a nothingness. it is now just a watch that tells the time. however, if you could get a dial and hands you could put it back to what it is supposed to be.

i, and our moderator did it many years ago. i bought a ranchero in the wrong case, he had a ranchero case so he married the 2 up for me and hey presto.

hope that helps

Graham

Hi G

I totally forgot about that "task".....   Do you still have it .. it was a nice example !!

In my opinion the Ranchero case design ( style and waterproof assembly) are unique to this case style.  The caseback snaps into the main casebody as opposed to the typical waterproof snapback that snops over a lip on the main casebody.


Good Hunting

Bill

Hi Dwndler

Overall a very nice watch .  Ranchero sweep seconds case.  I also like the Omega singed band and buckle.  As G stated if it had a Ranchero dial and hands... it would be a lot more valuable.  Your question is the dial original to the watch... I cant say for sure  but it looks like it could be .   Remember the Ranchero was not a very popular model when it was introduced and maybe extra cases and fancy dress dials was a way to use up the inventory of cases.  

Your example looks very dressy! and not sporty like the Ranchero was. 

Its really shocking how the dial can give you a total different look to a watch.

Good Hunting


BIll Sohne

Hi,

firstly a warm welcome to the forum!

If I were you I would request an extract from the Omega archive before you invest in a (probably) expensive original Ranchero dial.

First you must be sure that this particular movement belongs to this case, and - if yes - then look for an original dial.

It is also possible that the whole "interior" of movement+dial+hands derives from a melted down gold Seamaster and has been saved by

inserting it in this Ranchero case. You will only get to know the truth when you ask Omega... and then decide afterwards.

Just my 2 cents

Erich

Thank you very much for having me here.
What is procedure for asking for an extract from the Omega archive?
Is there some link or something? I tried once to ask them soimething on vintage site and answer was nothing I could use and I waited a month or more.
Btw. what is more common black or white Ranchero dial? On ebay and chrono24.com I saw mainly black ones and as this Seamaster dial is white I would like to get Ranchero in white as well if possible.

Kind regards
Dwndler

Hi Dwndler,

this is the link you need: www.omegawatches.com m

You will have to pay CHF 75 for it, but afterwards you will know if case and movement match.

Just fill in the movement number in the form - if you get an extract with the correct Ref.# you will be sure they match.

If the Ref# in the extract does not match with your ref.# you will know that the movement has been swapped some time ago...

Hope this helps to ease your mind! Good luck!

Kind regards

Erich

omega computerizes this and this can be done strictly online with the certificate sent to you in PDF form.  In addition, I hope omega also gives a lifetime or yearly pass where you pay a set fee and can access the system multiple times.  This seems to me a fairly easy thing to do should they decide to proceed with it.

Hi all,

I just wrote to Omega for an extract from the archives and now all I got to do is wait

Kind regards and thank you all for contributing in solving this puzzle

Dwndler

Here is what Omega wrote to me yesterday:

" I checked your movement number 16.947.097 in our archives and I’ve found following information:

 

The movement number matches to the reference CK 2996. This reference is a Ranchero like you already said on your order.

Your watch was delivered to Sweden and it doesn’t seem to be a changed Seamaster."

As I understand it it had Ranchero dial as it was shipped to Sweden.

Now I am hunting Ranchero dial and hands.

Any help is welcome.

Btw. I checked dial again and it seems as it is new dial and there is no patina or anything yellow on it. So I assume that someone changed dial.

If you were me, will you ask any further quiestions to Omega?

Kind regards

Dwndler

Hi,
imho this is all original - i.e. this ref. existed as Ranchero and (perhaps even more commonly) as Seamaster - with more or less plain dial and "normal" hands.
I've seen many of those normal Seamasters (btw. sweep center and small seconds) - in consistent original condition.
I believe (and also know of) quite a number of those also were "converted" into Ranchero's at a later point, just because of the actual market value - that might be the
reason one doesn't find many original Seamasters of this ref. today.

So, no frankenwatch here, IMHO, a very nice one too - but it would be one (of sorts) if you'd swap the dial to Ranchero as described above :

Best regards
Suitbert

Hi Suitbert,

What is the basis of your opinion that this ref. (2996) has existed also as Seamaster?
On one swedish site there is "transformed Ranchero"  for sale www.kaplans.se 9

Kind regards
dwndler

...personal experience.
I've seen far too many  normal Seamaster dial watches with this ref.
IMO it is very unlikely, that all those (otherwise very "consistent" watches, i.e. dial/hands/movement... consistent age/ status...)
in fact were "modified" original Ranchero's.
I've two personal theories of what happened:
- this ref. was originally produced and intended to be sold in two versions, Ranchero(black and white dial)  and Seamaster /plain dials (also different versions).
- originally intended as Ranchero, later due to poor acceptance in several markets cases/movements used with different Seamaster dials instead.

The third possibillity, originally Ranchero and later modified by "someone" to recieve a Seamaster dial - IMO highly unlikely and
wouldn't make any sense to me (I've personally seen 20+ examples of the opposite way though - found as Seamaster/plain dial and transformed into
Ranchero with either "homemade" or original spare Ranchero dials/hands)

I can't give you any proof or ref. - it's just my personal experience.

I can understand those who don't like to believe this though - converting  a rather "plain" Seamaster in a highly thought after Ranchero certainly
has more appeal (although in strict sense still a Franken than) 

Best regards
Suitbert

While I do not have his extensive experience, I, too, have seen Seamasters in this reference case. In fact, I just did a quick search, and found three, one of which had a very similar dial to the one in question.

It is also interesting to note a possible connection to the so-called "dress" Ranchero in a gold plated case. An example of that version was strategically placed on the same page as the Ranchero in a 1959 German catalogue (see the Old-Omega site to access images), and yet in spite of the obviously close connection with the Ranchero model (e.g. broad arrow hands, same case design, same dial layout, close proximity of reference numbers), the dial was marked Seamaster, and not Ranchero!

So, as the two models obviously intersected in that case (pun intended), Suitbert's theory really makes much more sense than the one which posits that all ref. 2996 cases housed Ranchero dials.

Regards,

Tony C.

I have an identical watch to this. Same hands,cal,face only the crown is slightly different. I love it.

Hi all,

Here is my humble contribution to this thread...  maybe it helps to believe Suitbert´s theory...

It is a Ranchero case marked 2990  1 SC  which sounds odd as 2990 was a sub second version,

but below there is the number 2996 without any  "SC" though - maybe a "mis-cast" - 1 SC should stand in the lower line...

It is no doubt an original Ranchero case.

What me made suspicious was the dial - made in the style of Ranchero and Railmaster dials, black with the silvered numbers and minute markers,

but marked "Seamaster".  The dial is a bit aged and 100% original, shows even patina and speckling" where the black paint is worn and the lower

silver "appears"...  I believe this watch to be original except the sweep second hand which does not match IMO (do not know about the crown tough,

I am no expert on these references). Maybe somebody with more experience on these models can shed some light on this...

I must apologize for the bad pictures - they were done under bad artificial lighting as a quick shot to be able to contribute to this thread in time.

Otherwise I would have had to wait until tomorrow morning and my response was too late then.

kind regards

Erich

Here are some additional pictures of the black-dialed Seamaster in Ranchero "clothes"...

including one of the Cal. 284 which should be correct for this watch.

Please let me know your thoughts!

And here comes the movement

Kind regards

Erich