Comments:
Load More Comments >>
Opinions: Omega 321 vs new Speedy moonwatch
I had the opportunity to look at both these today and somehow unexpectedly my allegiance for now is with the new ordinary 'basic' Speedmaster as opposed to the revered 321. It is simply a more aesthetically pleasing watch on the wrist when compared to the 321 even though the latter has all the pedigree. I can't say if it the modernity influencing my choice or something else but that's tbd.
Wud love to hear your thoughts.
Wud love to hear your thoughts.
I feel it boils down to the case & the lugs
the impression out of the movement kicks in late...
Best,
Mahesh.,
Best,
Mahesh.,
Both are great Speedmasters ...
But the Speedmaster 321 “Ed White” is on the next level.
The perfect solution is to have one of each ;-))
Always that dilemma..hot n wild with luks vs homely with brains. But who wud you miss most?
But really I failed to see that 'next level' you mention.
Indeed there is level of satisfaction a purist might get luking at that column wheel n the balance but it has to be flipped. On the wrist which do you think luks more attractive?
No message body
I have thought about the same question
For reasons similar to yours, the design of the classic simply speaks to my heart massively. And while the 321 has the venerability, if I would have to choose one or decide from which to start, I would go classic.
All the best,
Alex
All the best,
Alex
Also 321 doesn't luk like luxury to me (relatively speaking)...new speedy does. I mean...
.. it now has that je ne sais quoi while 321 luks like a tool watch in comparison until you flip it. Even then most wud compliment the basic piece if put side-by-side. One has know about the history or free sprung or column wheel and collectibility to get that bias towards 321.
So you don't think that 321 bracelet luks really cheap? The dial doesn't really inspire luxury either. All that audacity for the mvmt in the back which is def better but not even Breguet level finished.
No message body
I think the bracelet looks nice. Cheap is a tough word. I would say the Seiko 5 Bracelets look cheap, but not this one. I have one problem with this watch and that is the price.
No message body
Tricky choice indeed
My heart could go for the classic given the case shape which is exceptional, and having a slightly more pedestrian movement makes sense in such a tool watch.
I am saying that but I have not tried the 321 yet. I had a 3998 in the past but always preferred my classic 861 references with their twisted lugs.
It all comes down to what is important to you and your preferences...
The Moonwatch case with the lyre lugs has become synonymous with the Speedmaster due to the duration it has existed.
The EW 321 is based off an older reference and thus an homage to a different era.
If you just consider the looks, then that is subjective. But try and look further and here is where the 321 wins out. It is a pedigree that cannot be denied, even mythical. If we were to judge each component for both watches it would be different but here, the sum is much more compelling than the parts.
The find the flat link bracelet uber comfortable and since I do not own a new Speedy with the new bracelet I cannot give my assessment BUT I do own a 50th Anniversary Moonshine which has a similar bracelet based on what Robert Jan has stated. That bracelet is also very comfortable.
In the end, it is not really about a value proposition as the new Moonwatch has tremendous value for what it is. Believe me when I say the Ed White 321 feels of higher quality than the other Speedies I own. Again, I cannot say compared to the new Speedy 3861.
You state that someone has to turn the watch over to appreciate and realize the quality of the EW 321, I agree.
If we think this way, why would anyone pay 90.000 € for a Richard Lange Pour le Merite (fusée and chain) when they could get a similarly looking Richard Lange 3 hander for around ~33.000€ ? The case and dial look similar until you turn the watch over. And there is where we will notice the difference. The PLM movement is consider top of the range for Lange and those who choose to purchase one, do it for themselves even though it is not noticeable from the front side, sort of like a Patek with a Tourbillon only seen through the caseback or even a 5078 MR.
The EW 321 is NOT supposed to be for everyone. It does not represent a better value than the new Speedy 3861 BUT if we compare it to other manufacturers and their offerings, here we can see better the value of this piece.
If AP, Blancpain, Bulgari, Cartier, JLC, Rolex, Patek, or VC produced such a watch with the same pedigree as the EW 321 as well as the quality of the movement I would think it would be priced at multiples of what the EW 321 is at the moment. If I am wrong, please correct me as I would like to hear anything that is equivalent being offer ? If you ask me, the EW 321 is the best modern Speedmaster available in SS. I put it up there with the Moonshine as my 2 favorite modern Speedmasters and these 2 would be the ones I would keep if forced to choose only 2. All others, while nice, including the Snoopy 2 and 3 would rank below these 2 for me due to history, pedigree, etc...
The EW 321 is based off an older reference and thus an homage to a different era.
If you just consider the looks, then that is subjective. But try and look further and here is where the 321 wins out. It is a pedigree that cannot be denied, even mythical. If we were to judge each component for both watches it would be different but here, the sum is much more compelling than the parts.
The find the flat link bracelet uber comfortable and since I do not own a new Speedy with the new bracelet I cannot give my assessment BUT I do own a 50th Anniversary Moonshine which has a similar bracelet based on what Robert Jan has stated. That bracelet is also very comfortable.
In the end, it is not really about a value proposition as the new Moonwatch has tremendous value for what it is. Believe me when I say the Ed White 321 feels of higher quality than the other Speedies I own. Again, I cannot say compared to the new Speedy 3861.
You state that someone has to turn the watch over to appreciate and realize the quality of the EW 321, I agree.
If we think this way, why would anyone pay 90.000 € for a Richard Lange Pour le Merite (fusée and chain) when they could get a similarly looking Richard Lange 3 hander for around ~33.000€ ? The case and dial look similar until you turn the watch over. And there is where we will notice the difference. The PLM movement is consider top of the range for Lange and those who choose to purchase one, do it for themselves even though it is not noticeable from the front side, sort of like a Patek with a Tourbillon only seen through the caseback or even a 5078 MR.
The EW 321 is NOT supposed to be for everyone. It does not represent a better value than the new Speedy 3861 BUT if we compare it to other manufacturers and their offerings, here we can see better the value of this piece.
If AP, Blancpain, Bulgari, Cartier, JLC, Rolex, Patek, or VC produced such a watch with the same pedigree as the EW 321 as well as the quality of the movement I would think it would be priced at multiples of what the EW 321 is at the moment. If I am wrong, please correct me as I would like to hear anything that is equivalent being offer ? If you ask me, the EW 321 is the best modern Speedmaster available in SS. I put it up there with the Moonshine as my 2 favorite modern Speedmasters and these 2 would be the ones I would keep if forced to choose only 2. All others, while nice, including the Snoopy 2 and 3 would rank below these 2 for me due to history, pedigree, etc...
Thanks for your detailed response. Price/value is completely different discussion. I believe I over-expected from 321 while it was the 3861 that over-delivered hence the dilemma. It ll take time ...
....to sink in at my end.
To answer your other Q Breguet Montblanc both have similar propositions Lemania Villeret which are much better finished iirc. I dont believe their price 18-20k is that far off but those are in PMs etc.
I m sort of envious of some of you who decided preemptively before deliveries started that 321 was a winner and are blissfully content with the acquisition. I too expected love at first sight but it didn't happen. Let us see, I like challenging pieces and keep coming back to them.
To answer your other Q Breguet Montblanc both have similar propositions Lemania Villeret which are much better finished iirc. I dont believe their price 18-20k is that far off but those are in PMs etc.
I m sort of envious of some of you who decided preemptively before deliveries started that 321 was a winner and are blissfully content with the acquisition. I too expected love at first sight but it didn't happen. Let us see, I like challenging pieces and keep coming back to them.
I appreciate your response but an equivalent Breguet (gold as they don't make it in SS) with the same base Lemania 2310 movement is 4 times the price of an EW 321. As for the MB/Minerva, that is 1.5 - 2x the price and nowhere near the pedigree...
I am basing this on retail prices, not secondary market prices.
I have looked around and thought about anything even equivalent to an EW 321 in terms of quality, pedigree, etc...and again I don't think there is anything close. It is actually in a class of it's own. There is ZERO alternatives to the EW 321 if you fix the criteria:
* Historic manual winding column wheel chronograph
* Historic pedigree
* Cult status
* SS or non previous metal case
* Quality of movement assembly, case, etc...
Imagine if Rolex came out with an homage of a 6239/6241/6263/6265 type with a manual winding chronograph either based on the V72 they used prior or something equivalent.what do you think that would sell for and can we agree that it would be nearly impossible to get from a boutique or AD 😂🤣🤪
I have looked around and thought about anything even equivalent to an EW 321 in terms of quality, pedigree, etc...and again I don't think there is anything close. It is actually in a class of it's own. There is ZERO alternatives to the EW 321 if you fix the criteria:
* Historic manual winding column wheel chronograph
* Historic pedigree
* Cult status
* SS or non previous metal case
* Quality of movement assembly, case, etc...
Imagine if Rolex came out with an homage of a 6239/6241/6263/6265 type with a manual winding chronograph either based on the V72 they used prior or something equivalent.what do you think that would sell for and can we agree that it would be nearly impossible to get from a boutique or AD 😂🤣🤪
Pat. you are just concentrating your discussion around price/value. My take after seeing it was 321 somehow luks inferior to the new 3861 when put on wrist. At least that was just my first impression.
...even when Flipped around it has 3 elements sedna, german silver and reg nickel plated metal jarring each other. It wasn't love at first sight. The pedigree/value bias is only thing which swayed me to think it this far.
Pat?? Again, I see and understand your point but being an owner of the EW 321 and both Apollo 11 50th Anniversary models which have a 3861 movement, I would happily choose th 321 over the Apollo 11 any day...
As I stated prior, the EW 321 and Apollo 11 Moonshine are my 2 favorite modern Speedmasters in terms of quality, pedigree, etc...
I would recommend spending more time with both watches to get a better sense of ownership as I can honestly say that I have overlooked many watches from first impressions and have owned many over the years after giving them more consideration or time 😉😁
And my perspective has really little to do with price/value and more to do with quality/pedigree/brand cache/etc...
I would recommend spending more time with both watches to get a better sense of ownership as I can honestly say that I have overlooked many watches from first impressions and have owned many over the years after giving them more consideration or time 😉😁
And my perspective has really little to do with price/value and more to do with quality/pedigree/brand cache/etc...
Yup that wud be the 'normal' course of action- spend more time with it.. But given the lockdown stay@home ord and poor availability that is not even an option. I am considering just getting it and see if I grow to like it.
Never bought anything I haven't loved so this wud be the exception and it feels weird. Its almost like ordering any other retail item online these days just to luk at except this one cannot be returned
New speedy. They did right with that one..
Although i am slightly annoyed by the “flight qualified in 1965” text. Its like justifying itself that it’s also a legit moonwatch
I’d go sapphire sandwich if ever. Applied logo, partly polished links on the bracelet, and supposedly thinner than the hesalite version. Ideally, I’d go hesalite but those pros offset the cons for me.
The 321 is undoubtedly a connoisseur’s piece but seems a bit flat when i look at most pictures. The new speedy with the bracelet and polished links look really nice. For once, i prefer the shine over the tool aesthetic!
I’d go sapphire sandwich if ever. Applied logo, partly polished links on the bracelet, and supposedly thinner than the hesalite version. Ideally, I’d go hesalite but those pros offset the cons for me.
The 321 is undoubtedly a connoisseur’s piece but seems a bit flat when i look at most pictures. The new speedy with the bracelet and polished links look really nice. For once, i prefer the shine over the tool aesthetic!
They have a severe obsession when it comes to those inscriptions when no one really cares about that at all I believe.
No message body
The Ed White 321 is an homage . . .
. . . to a legend. Cal 3861 Speedmasters are the dawn of a third generation. One beckons the past, the other is the future.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, nor have I seen either in the metal yet. My hunch, though, is that Speedmasters powered by the new movement will surpass the appeal of vintage models.
Art
I see your point Art and would also agree if we are talking about vintage Speedmasters as they are more difficult to get and more of a hassle to maintain...
The new tech found in the 3861 Speedies are just technically better watches overall and should appeal to the masses more anyways.
The same could be said about modern and vintage Rolex. Although the vintage Rolex market is large, especially amongst collectors, it is dwarfed by the modern Rolex market.
The same could be said about modern and vintage Rolex. Although the vintage Rolex market is large, especially amongst collectors, it is dwarfed by the modern Rolex market.
Are you familiar with Elliott's wave theory . . .
. . . of stock market trends? The third (of five) wave(s) is the strongest.
My sense is we're at the dawn of the most potent era. Before long, we'll be referring to Speedmasters in BC and AD terms.
;-)
You really think 3861 is that big of a stepping stone? I mean it is easy to see it as the most mass appealing ...
...watch that checks all the boxes- Price,value, aesthtics, functionality, precision and versatility. Wud it be tough one to beat for years?
In a word . . .
. . . yes.
Assuming, of course, the purported precision of the movement actually pans out.