Audemars Piguet

Hi Everyone,

New to the forum. I've acquired an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak that looks really vintage. It's got the AP above the 6 and the caseback number is a "C" Series. I don't know very much about these watches, and even less about the "C" series. I really can't find much information online. Lots on the "A" and lots on the newer models.

If anyone can help me understand what I have (and help me age the watch) that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Welcome to the Forum, would really appreciate it if you could post pics of the caseback, dial and both sides of the case so we can all tell you more.

S

Thanks for your help. I've uploaded a couple pics. I don't have a box or certificate, this was from a good family friend. I'm just trying to figure out as much as I can about it. I've blocked out the serial number only because I noticed other people did that in their pics... not sure why!

Anyways, hope these pics are enough.

Thanks.

to me it looks koscher, Ref. 5402 with a nice Swiss Dial (vs. the service Swiss Made Dial), C series is circa late 70s and as is the case the majority of these vintage pieces don't come with their papers or boxes. Seems to have its original crown too, is it a plain crown or is there an AP logo on it? Would be great to get pics of the clasp as well and the deployant metal piece, hows the bracelet? big gaps when you wear it or small ones? from the pics it seems the bracelet is not too stretched.

All you need to do now is to send her to AP for some TLC and you'll have imho one of the most iconic and fun to wear pieces out there

Good Score

S

From what I know the Ref. 5402 released in 72 made through to the D series were essentially the same (case size, movement, specs) except the AP logo above the 6 is considered more collectible than the ones with the AP logo at 12, also from what I've seen the AP logo above the 6 was available on most pieces upto the C series after which most if not all of the ref. 5402 and the subsequent references had the AP logo at 12.

Funny thing is that I've seen B series pieces with the first owners with Swiss Only dials with the AP logo at 12 as well (not service dials) and ofcourse B series pieces with the AP logo above the 6, don't have any accurate data but I have a feeling C series pieces with the AP logo above the 6 are rarer than B series pieces with the AP logo above the 6.

Service it and wear it Dave, you won't find a better watch

S

I wrote this already but it didn't look like it posted so I'll write it again, sorry if it's double posted.

The bracelet seems tight, no holes. The crown doesn't have an AP logo on it, what does that mean?

Where exactly is the deployment piece you want me to take a picture of?

Also what do you mean by a swiss service dial? Do you mean as in it was replaced under service? If so, how do you tell?

Sorry for all the questions, but learning about everything really is fascinating.

Got another one... servicing seems to be about $1000 and take place in Switzerland, this isn't a problem for me as I spent most of my time over in the UK and can just ship it from there. The watch works perfectly right now, but does have scratches and surely needs a service, I think it's been sitting in a box for over 10 years. Is there enough value in the watch though to send it for servicing or should I just wear it out?

Congratulations on the purchase of an iconic piece of horological history!  Wear it an enjoy it in good health.

On the servicing, given that it has sat in a box for a while, I would personally bite the bullet and send the watch in for servicing just to check the internals.  Regarding the cosmetic scratches - I personally think  they add to the patina of the watch, as they seem to be evenly spread. 

"To refresh or not to refresh", should depend on how you plan to use the watch - daily wear or occasional wear.  If daily wear, I would not have it refreshed but keep it as is and enjoy it.  Having bought a brand new AP and given that the brushed steel scratches so easily, it'll save you a lot of heartache.  If occasional wear (and the scratches bother you), have it refreshed.

Just my £0.02, but I am no expert as I am new to AP ownership too.

become "hot" in the coming months (and years) - 2012 is the 40th anniversary of the Royal Oak, and if the anniversary of the Patek Nautilus is anything to go by (some consider the Royal Oak a far more important and iconic "luxury steel sports watch" than the Nautilus, brand equity notwithstanding) people will be MAD for early 5402's. This means both demand AND price creep...

As simply and directly as possible, yes, the watch is worth sending in to AP for a proper service (and case refresh if you wish; personally, I wouldn't trust anyone else to do a case refresh=polishing)  We don't discuss market prices here, but if you look around, you'll find the price of a proper AP service (that means AP factory in Switzerland, or AP owned and run service center; there are a few independents who can also do a credible job, but you are really taking your chances...) and case refresh much less than a 10th of the market value of the watch...or put another way, service it, and if you decide it's not a keeper, you will easily be able to sell it for more than 10x as much as the service (possibly much more...)

There are lots of half truths (and whole myths) about the dial, alpha letter series, production dates, etc - even AP themselves (those who have access to the records) have given me conflicting historical "facts" over the decades, and I've been very friendly with AP, even to the point of having looking at those books myself, for many, many years.

In general terms, yes, A, B, and some C series pieces have the AP logo over the 6. Is there a reason why this should make the watch more collectible than the same model with the AP at 12? No, only because it is no longer available. Just like the car models that were not at all popular when they were in current production, only to see their prices skyrocket and everyone chase after them (the IWC Mark series up to the Mark XII, and some PP models, also come to mind) once they are announced to be stopping production.

If you are a collector, it means something; if not, it really is nothing, only which you prefer - the AP at 12, or over the 6.  Of course, market value wise if you ever decide to sell there is a difference, so if you prefer the AP at 12, I suggest you request (demand) the original dial come back to you and just pay for a new dial with AP at 12. Otherwise, keep the original dial (and as Salman wisely suggests, make sure you MAKE IT EXPLICITLY CLEAR you want to keep the original dial and to NOT change it out! Plus get a receipt to this effect...a word to the wise.)

This watch is special for many reasons, among them -

1. First "high end watch" with a serious high horology movement made in stainless steel case and bracelet, priced as thought it were in a precious metal case.  There were other stainless steel cased watches before, but generally not sporty and generally with "medium grade" workhorse movements.

2. The caliber (movement) 2121 inside is widely considered one of the great movements of all time, and still the thinnest full rotor automatic movement ever made. It is robust, reliable, accurate, and technically interesting, from an engineering standpoint (see my previous posts about this movement)

3. It has an iconic design that has withstood the test of time as an evergreen sporty design.

4. The case is technically interesting - the 5402's had a monocoque (one piece) case designs, sealed from the top by the bezel. It and the bezel also had a very complex shape with multiple finishes, which made it both beautiful and a nightmare (which means very difficult, which means a dream for those that appreciate it) to make, finish, and refinish.

Again, congratulations, you have acquired a landmark watch that many would give their eye teeth to own.

Cheers,

TM

nt

Apologies for the quick reply, have a meeting to rush to,

The picture of the clasp and the two folding metal parts, the side with has been stamped with various information and logos

Period Service dials have "Swiss Made" under 6 and the AP logo at 12, so apologies if I did not write "Swiss Made" in reference to service dials.

Since the crown is not stamped AP, that means its good the 5402s did not have AP stamped on the crown so its the original crown and not a service replacement. If you do decide to send it in for a service, specify clearly that the dial and crown and caseback are not to be replaced.

S

i wish they make reborn of legend for sihh 2012 

my post

only for AP Royal Oak 5402 owners

here in the forum

regards

Stephan

P.S. I also wrote alot in german forum, but it was to much for me to tranlate all these informations

I hope you enjoy this classic watch. The cost of the service is a very small price to pay in relation to the enjoyment you will gain from having it restored to its former understated glory.