Audemars Piguet

Hello fellow forum members,

Several years ago I had a stainless/18K 5402 from the early 80's.  I sold it and have regretted it ever since.

I decided to acquire a new Jumbo and can't decide on which version to buy.

A vintage Jumbo would likely hold its value better than a late model 15202, but the coolness of the vintage model lacks a see-through dial, so you don't get to see the gorgeous cal. 2121 movement.

Of course a 14802 would be a nice compromise, a bit vintage with the see-through movement.  However, there are not too many around.

Or I even have the opportunity to acquire a really nice example of another two-tone from the '70's with box and papers.  I know this version is not too popular among collectors and I am wondering why.  My version had a dark gray waffle dial, which I think looked very classy with the rose and stainless bracelet.  Why do you think this model is not popular? 

While I know I ultimately have to choose the one I like best, I am a bit indecisive.

In your opinion, what are the pros and cons of vintage vs. a newer 15202?  And if you could only buy one such version, which would it be and why?  Before you say a great A series due to it being the first series, etc., let's assume I'm unwilling to spend what Antiquorum just sold one for!

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and recommendations on this matter.

It's actually kind of fund to have all these choices, for as we know, sometimes the horological chase is as much or more fun as finally having one in your hands!

With warm regards,

Rob

I think the non-SS models are less popular among collectors because the original RO was conceived and executed as a luxury watch made in stainless steel. It was a bold move at the time to produce such an expensive watch elevating the common metal to the level of a precious one in a true luxury mechanical watch.  I think the identity of the RO is just so closely tied to it being produced in stainless steel  and not in a precious metal. 

That said, I also think that the two--tone models are realy attractive, even to me, and I generally dislike the combination of colored gold with while metals in watches.  So, if you like that and you regret the sale of the earlier watch, why not go for it?  That seems like a perfect choice for you.

Hunting a series-A RO is a complex process that involves a lot of research, due diligence and decisions on the part of the collector. In short, is a dream for a true collector and a nightmare for a non-collector who just enjoys watches.  For the latter type of "collector," it seems to me to be a much better idea to go for a 15202 (even these  are not easy to come by new from ADs as they are produced in very limited numbers).  The "compromise" or "advantage" in this case, as you already noted, is that you get a caseback display, which is perhaps not true to the original solid caseback but which affords a view on the beautiful movement.  Decisions, decisions. LOL. 

If you want to get  a "near vintage" model, as you said, you can hunt for a Jubilee edition.  The hunt would not be fraught with as many complexities as it would be for an A, B or C-series RO, but you could end up with a watch that feels very special on the wrist.  I guess I would go for either a Jubilee or a new 15202 choosing the dial color you prefer.

Who cares what collectors are collecting?  The recent price paid for a an A-series RO is a unique piece of data and may not indicate accurately future prices in any case. That buyer may have seriously overpaid. But again, the information is not really relevant to someone looking for an RO to wear and enjoy, right?

As you rightly said, the horological hunt is where the fun is to be found, well at least much of the fun.  I was reminded of that recently as I worked towards my latest acquisition.

Good luck,

respo

Thank you for your intuitive insight into the matter.  It is most appreciated.  Happy hunting!

the enjoyment above all--in both hunting and wearing!

J

Hi Rob,

I am a former owner of a 1980's Royal Oak 18kt/ss with day date feature subdials (it did not have the moonphase which was later added to that model).  It had a gray waffle pattern dial and gold subdial rings.  Overall, I though the Royal Oak was a design that looked fantastic in steel and gold!  I traded that watch after several years, and after some issues I won't get into about that watch.  But I've always wanted to add some form of Royal Oak to my small collection again.

While the RO looks great in a two tone format, I have to agree with the other poster that the Royal Oak a watch that most people think of in steel, especially when its the Jumbo.  The whole concept of the RO was based on AP turning steel into a luxury metal for a luxury watch.  I've also heard another reason some people are not as interested in steel and gold watches is they think it looks very 1980s. So they prefer a single metal on a watch. 

I have been looking at ROs for a while, and still have not been able to decide what I want, other than it will be SS and not be an Offshore.  I have considered the Chronograph, the Dual Time, the updated day/date, and the Jumbo.   I initially dismissed the Jumbo thinking what do I need another time only watch for?  I like the thicker links of the bracelet on the chronograph, dual time, and the day/date.  After a few years of wear the inner portion/links on my old RO showed some indentations/wear.  Therefore, I thought the thicker bracelet might be the way to go (although in all steel maybe it would not be as much of an issue).  I took the dual time out of the equations, its a nice watch but my Wife doesn't like it and I don't do that much traveling in different timezones.  The chronograph is nice, but most of the dial choices don't thrill me, they don't make a true black dial, and the blue dial I like has orange which I don't care for.  I liked the new "Panda" dial although I wish the black subdial part was the portion with the numbers more like that on the rose gold version, or that it was the entire subdial like on an old manual wind Daytona.  Plus some people say the screw down pushers are a nuisance on that one.  The day/date looks like a nice wach but I remember setting the date/day was a bit of a pain since there is no quick set.  Also, I've heard some people like the newer bracelet (also found on the 15300 and other people don't).  I have a small wrist and I know the bracelet on the chrono or Jumbo would be reasonably  comfortable for me.  So now I started looking at Jumbos again.

I love the photos of the original Jumbos with the AP symbol at 6.  I much prefer their dials with smaller font and the lack of the 5,10,15 etc around the dial of modern Jumbos. But there are so few around, and I'm a bit OCD so I'd probably never find a perfect one that was not over polished and that had all boxes and papers.  So its a cool watch, but not for me.  Also, if I'm considering a time only watch, maybe I should at least have a display back to view the movement...hence Jubile or modern Jumbo are sort of front runners at the moment.  I wish there were more dial choices, like a darker deeper blue or black. 

The best thing you can do, is look at lots of pix of the various Jumbos you are considering and then figure out which elements or things you like the most about one version and go for it.  If you really like the 18kt/ss then go for it.  Who cares what other collectors are going for.  You are the one that will be wearing it each day.  For some people 18kt/ss watches represent a great value since fewer people are chasing after them.  I hope your search goes well. 

I'm still have a lot of soul searching to do before making a final decision.

Best regards,

Dino

we have a special announcement coming very soon...

;-)

nt

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MTF

Can't wait to hear more about this announcement TM....

Regards,
ED-209

Even better if it was a ??????? JUMBO LE.

Bet you can read my mind TM.

JerryW

for that special announcement, Thomas.

Thanks for the info.

Best,

Goh

hopefully...

Yours,

Andy.

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Hi,
14802 is a very good choice for anyone looking for a vintage look without struggling with the several 5402 you can find in such a bad state on the market.
14802 has this old fashionned tapestry, the old fashionned AUDEMARS PIGUET font on the dial and the old grey/blue dial color.
You will of course not have the AP at 6, but the dial looks very clean and balanced with the AP at 12.
The caliber is obviously good to be seen on the Jubilee.
BTW I also own a 15202 with a white dial, and believe me it is a great watch with a more sporty look.
I agree a 14802 is not very easy to find..
Here's mine:

Cheers,
Pank
 

nt.

The watch is absolutely nicer than it looks on this picture but anyway:


Cheers,
Pank

I like the original font, dial, lack of the outline around the date and lack of little numbers around the dial.  Your watch also looks to be in great shape.  Thanks for sharing some photos.  The modern version is nice, but I'm hoping TM's hint is that something similar to your watch will be released at SIHH.  Thanks again.

Best regards,

Dino

I love reading this type of thread. I'd never personally consider a watch without a second hand but the rest of the styling is bang on. And I learned a lot about the various incarnations and subtle differences.