Horological Meandering

Going over the posts I have made since 2002 or so...will reveal to newbies the crazy guy I am.

These are but a fraction of my passion.

And I mean passion...because any guy WITH LOTS of $$$$$ can do this, BUT...I am not a guy with a lot of that.

 

Then...I discovered thru ownership, the experience of owning my first Greubel Forsey.

This came about because I wanted to buy a Roger Smith..I was taken by the British finish..that blasted sandy look.

BUT...I wanted a little "more" than aesthetics.

After all, I had quite a few aesthetically challenging works already.

Here below is my second Greubel Forsey.

Bought just days ago.

I usually go for way over the top stuff, and this is certainly a departure.

I had also desperately wanted to get back that LANGE 1 feeling that I felt when I first saw that watch.

I sought out Dufour.

Again..top finishing...but again I wanted that bit more.

The "more" that allows me to say...OK..this is the END.

Naturally...I found Dufour in Japan..back in 2010.

I looked for THAT ultimate watch, that piece for ending all pieces.

Now..that is TOUGH.

If you look at even the most basic 24 incline, which I bought yesterday out of impulse...you can see how good it is.

It is a Dufour with a tourbillon.

Not just a tourb, but the best tourb I have seen...measured against my Richard Milles and APs.

Look at that angle!!!!

Look at the joint at the bridge of the tourb!!!!

Look at the dial finish.

This watch...you must spend a bit of money to get in platinum.

I will stick my reputation out...it will be an awesome investment.

No matter what.

The rules of DESIRE drive it.

Being a watch...it carries the philosophical code of IMMORTALITY.

It is an awesome watch...this basic 24 incline.

Next to the ULTRA rare invention 1 ...OK..the invention 1 is not as "beautiful" superficially...but gasp...it is awesome internally and has finish that is impossible, to me, at least...to be better.

I own enough Langes and Pateks....I feel it.

I can be wrong.

I doubt it.

Look at the crown detail!!!!

Look at the British and French/swiss styled backs.

Look at the Roger Smith style or George Daniels style plates over blasted frost!!!

These are my precious babies now.

I am so so without money!!!!

Some body!!! GIMME some cash!!!

 

In 2010..I spoke with Steven and PROMISED.

PROMISED.

I will buy a Greubel Forsey.

I kept my word.

Here is Steven in 2010..he did not need to try so hard really.

If I had more cash...I will put it ALL into Greubel Forsey.

NOW.

This is the "sorry" state of my prized pieces...well..not that bad...but soon...it should be filled with 8 greubels.

I am an addict.

Now..I still love MB&F, and Vianney.

But those are art pieces per se.

Greubel Forseys are both state of the art, emotional, and simply DAMNED good.

And rare too...not does it matter to me so much.

This piece is a MUST.

My humble IWC perpetual.

Never stopped for many years.

My GIFT.

A Christmas gift from friends.

Now, the Cabestan, is in a league of Vianney and MB&F.

It is another incredible piece that I once said will end all my purchases.

I was wrong.

Hi Bernard,

It is rare to even have seen many of these pieces yet alone acquire them, even in a horology wonderland like here in Hong Kong.  You truly embody the art of collecting and the passion is evident.

This is the hotel accommodations I will be getting used to, in order to save money for the GMT or the Technique.

Well, I don't know if I have ever been at the top.

But I agree with you.

AND...I finally agree that it took an event horizon to bring watches into an investment arena.

I will concede that Lange failed.

Patek, nope, better to buy shares etc...it is hard to sell if you have to keep everything frozen in time.

Try selling at anything comparable to other collectables.

BUT with GF's 100 per annum, and sequential and clear transparent accounts open to the public, and the strict 11 or number policy.

One wonders how many thousands of Pateks or etc brands have been made.

Now, even after 25 years, we will be looking at 2500 to 4000 pieces of superlative pieces, each equally superlative.If not MORE.

And for the 11 invention level pieces, I will advise a look at the Dragon Chair by Eileen Grey in 2009.

Pits of recession, plus total nightmare in authentication, and yet.....!!!

So...will watches be investments?

No one knows.

But...I certainly invest in family and friends. But I collect to enrich my own life.

This Greubel Forsey, UN, MB&F, Vianney, Urwerk, Rolex, Omega...have colored my geeky life.

My luggage is a testimony to my modest new life....to save for Greubel Forseys...old or new.

I suspect old will cost MORE.

By far the most interesting and well-finished that I've seen (although I've never had the pleasure of viewing in person, so perhaps that disqualifies my opinion a bit).

John

The first time, it ws just before Opus 6, in 2005 or 2004.

BUT.

The price.

Anyway, my theory fortunately worked, and by 2012, 6 years later...prices of tourbillons went up by 300% at the top end. Down by 200% at the weirdly world of carousel made in china end.

BUT...as in antiquities and art and all things of craft...there is good, better, best and ultimate...Hammer of Thor.

I will not be surprised if the next GF will have a case made from the Hammer itself!

No one does it like you Bernard! Congrats!

cheers

fernando

I would gladly save my pet for the price of any watch.

Here is a patient who is younger than I am...by 8 months.

hard to believe. At first glance I thought he's your Dad. (Pls. don't tell him this.)

If GF can do this, then I'm in.

Greubel Forsey has always stood at the pinnacle of 21st century haute horologerie from both technical and aesthetic perspectives, as you said, not merely art pieces.

I am so "into" way out watches, that I forgot about my reasons: I was tired of so called superlative work around, with superlative prices, BUT not delivering, even in the classical style, superlative quality of construct, not to mention any minute tiny improvements in reliable, carefree and accurate timekeeping.

UNTIL.

I explored, by accident, as I do not blame my country's retailer of GF then, not to include me at all.

But I was and still am a fan of MB&F and Vianney.

So...at least, I had a chance to buy them.

NOW..that a new retailer is selling GF...I got a chance to see them.

Also at Paris, in Nov 2013 last year...now, just like I did for UN and MB&F and Vianney...I will have to embark on a journey....this time, I have no fear.

I sincerely feel that whatever I put into GF...it's as close to investing it as I can.

Frankly, for used pieces, the prices are HIGHER than if bought new.

A good sign indeed.

Here are 7 pictures of the latest piece I bought.

It is a FINE watch, and I have not seen, even at the revered grandmasters, work of this level.

Also...It appeals to new and old collectors.

Now..pictures do not do this watch justice.

They were designed for men, I will not really say this is gender free.

They are not big.

They are massive, strong, built like tanks and I can tell you....what I felt when I saw Lange 1 for the FIRST time...this is that feeling. X 100.

BUT caveat...Lange 1 is relatively 10x less costly.

But there are probably 1000 x and growing...more Langes and RM watches around.

These GF watches are RARE, as in the same rarity you get at museums that hang 18 by 6 feet paintings kind of rare.

And..to have this chance to buy them when BOTH Greubel and Forsey are alive and well....it is similar a chance to buy from the big houses when the real founding fathers were around.

Enjoy.

More to come.

I wish you to have all G&F models! You deserve them!

I am seriously considering this.

Cars here in Singapore are very expensive.

BUT...I think a Greubel Forsey is so damned good a product that one has to make these choices.

No message body

I cannot imagine any collector not having a Rolex and a Patek or Lange. At least one.

But these Greubel Forseys are such intimidating in quality, that and the price....there will not be easy to find people posting them up.

I hope that we will see more owner's watches, and not just shop demo pieces (if there is even such a thing).

I agree with you.  In my opinion, it is a purists duty to share in the splendor of such wonderful pieces through macros that are done to the best of their ability! 

 

Just kidding.... Not really though, post pics please

 

 

No message body

This is a lesson for retailers...desires and passions are not easy to read off the clothes, shoes and car of a person.

I mean, no one will think that I will go ballistic for GF, since I do not buy high end Pateks.

BUT...they were wrong.

It is the PRODUCT, leave the solution of finding a way to buy it, to the consumer.

Not everyone may be nuts like me...but I think I am not alone.

There are many, who do not have big bank accounts, who will buy a watch like this.

Simply for its beauty and that it is so incredibly put together.

All I can say is....it will pull up the market for Lange. Because certainly, if you can't buy a GF, I will go and look at Lange...however, Lange lacks that BOOM factor.

The Greubel Forsey, all of them, carry enough explosive impression power to blow anything off the table....even my entire current collection.

These watches are heavy stuff.

Is the finish on those watches as good as Dufour or Kari?

to go into detail during these 3 months.

This is because I was taken away from focusing on finish until I saw Lange and Dufour.

BUT...these soon became purely academic.

It was a challenge about whose marbles were more shining.

Greubel Forsey brought to me, a finish that is not just about levels of superlative work...but it did 2 things:

1 It made finish a requirement from now on, in ALL watches which even claim excellency.

2 The Greubel Forsey level is so far ahead of the rest, that although it will cot you more than a kidney, it will be enough to make your body grow another.

3 The Grubel Forsey finish is evident upon inspection, that it was placed into the watch as a needful integrated part of it.

4 The quality of it trounced all the rest of the brands who were making their own emblems and certificates of greatness....Greubel Forsey "just did it". No certificate needed!

5 I finally am confident, to say, that watches as an investment, is now a reality...only for Greubel Forsey. No other brand as yet, some have a few which are certainly investments, but these GF watches will remain investments even as you wear them, and throw away the boxes and papers. They are that good.

In all fair play, GF had an advantage of actuallying applying what most would say I was mad....that $100,000 USD will not be the pain threshold.

Instead, a violin like the Guaneri or many of the good furniture collectables, should be used as a yard stick...ie chairs and tables which were made in 100 to 2,000 ltd editions in 1960 are sold used at $900,000.

Many will succeed at $200,000.

GF came into the market with both guns firing, with a start point of $300,000 usd.

And they operated Gunther Blumlein style...honest quality, no using of stars and sub conscious persuaders.

They offer GOOD work, the best work, at cost no object...and focused on small numbers....less than 100 total.

With say 20 points of sale, you are looking at 5 watches per shop.

I know...even I cannot accept the prices NOW, but by 2015...I will.

My Langes bought at $18,000 usd for a Lange 1 platinum in the early days...I thought was too high. But I was wrong.

Only thing is...one cannot predict if one can find buyers easily. Probably NOT.

Rather...NOT YET.

Now...portable wealth,( money spent is money real, but as far as possible, recovery must be possible), a phrase I originated, and I was laughed at...but I deserved the abuse, because I was too full of enthusiasm, is a reality with hyper museum level players...GF, Dufour, Vianney...and a handful.

Rare is anything below 20 and in high profile....it generates demand.

More later...

If you trace my comments in 2004...many did not agree that Lange would be anything.

I was a pure Patek man.

BUT...to be good, and to be incredible, one has to master the art of building a name, reputation, and also...the right customers for that price. It is unhealthy to spend so much.

However, I feel that after the years I spent with Rolf and with Vianney...I had learnt that there are MUCH more...maybe 30x more and growing...the numbers who will buy a Greubel at 2 million...at the current designs.

And I think GF knows that too.

So minimize to 11 or 100....they will see awesome numbers returning with high prices.

Their work is absolute...and totally ocd.

Congrats on getting another GF!

Your photos are wonderful!  I didnt realise the back of the movements had similar elements that were a mix of british/french/swiss watchmakers.

I remember reading somewhere Mr Biver collects GF's but he cant remember how many he has!

Cheers!

a car versus a watch comparison.

There are many many watches that will out price a car...but only a GF will need no explanation to the wife.

Trust me, they are that good.

It's not that I can't find any flaws, but they are about 10 to 100x less than a Patek. I once, in 2004, wanted to buy a Patek of a considerable caliber, but....it was too easy to find flaws.

The other thing is that the Pateks have to be MINT and NOT WORN, to be desired items in auction.

The GF watches don't have that problem.

They are rarely seen at auction or at any used dealer....buyers will buy first, restore later, if needed at all.

The GF are so massive in bulk, that speaking or thinking of a scratch seems silly.

Those two guys got it RIGHT.

We all want to wear our watches...not wrap them in plastic.

One thing that really makes me feel uncomfortable viewing nice watches, is when the company rep pulls out the white (or black) gloves!!  The velvet tray is one thing, but gloves, really?

I understand the need to keep things clean but you're going to wear this thing, right? 

Of course the only thing that gets me going more, is the boutiques that have plastic wrapped around every watch!!  Really???

Chuckles. To be fair to Stephen, that picture was a long time ago.
It could have been one of the few they made then.

I agree about the over the top protection.
However, I had one of my now 9 year old precious watch ruined by a deep scar from a diamond ring..and this was a platinum!
Now it also scares me.

But lesson learnt...they need to sell the watch.

For me, pain. But I am not selling. If I was, I guess I will ask for at least a clean cloth....peace of mind, polishing a case can mean a dismantling and movement out procedure...costly.

unbelievable piece.

The double tourbillon secret was maybe one of the very rare tourbillon that could make my jaw drops and want it badly, it will never happen but I am amazed by the TWO G&F you got there! A quadruple and THAT invention piece N°1 ...  I'm stunned, fabulous pieces (remember the Occhio too which was another of your terrific watches imho with Halter among others)

cheers

François

You read my mind.

But I have the humble single tourb with two axis.

However, this white version is not seen often, and when the retailer showed it to me, I bought it within seconds.

It is not a stealth watch, it is BIG.

But, it is not too boastful.

However, it is one hell of a beauty...the white is almost porcelain...right up to the crystal!!!