Comments:
Grönefeld appointment / disappointment
Such a bummer. I have been thinking about (read: obsessing over) the Grönefeld Remontoire for a year, and had finally decided to buy one. God knows they’re not a quick decision, so I wanted to buy from a trusted source. The 1916 crew in New York are real fellow watch geeks so that is clearly a safe set of hands.
Grönefeld Remontoire
The watch had been held for me, and when I finally got to see it in person…. It was absolutely magnificent! But also much smaller than I had somehow assumed throughout all this time. It’s a 39mm, but the design is so old-school elegant and efficient in terms of the mechanism and its occupation of the case that the watch appears even small for a 39mm. I am soooo very sad. I am relatively big person, and this incredibly elegant watch seems a little lost on my wrist.
In all my excitement I didn’t take many pictures, I’m the kind of guy who eats a great meal and then thinks “ah I should have taken a photo” so I’m clearly not influencer material… but anyway.
I had an important year and want to commemorate it. I’m open to ludicrous ideas in the low sixes.
Grönefeld Remontoire
How about a 42, 43, or a 44?
Thanks for visiting my company to see this watch. If you're interested in something larger, we periodically have the earlier pre-"1941" Gronefeld and recent DeltaWorks cases that are considerably larger than the watch you saw. Alternatively, a De Bethune DB25 in 42mm or 44mm would give the classic "round watch" look with automatic winding and a quality level comparable to Gronefeld. We have those available if you'd like to see one. Also, a Romain Gauthier Prestige HMS at 43 would be a good alternative. The RG Insight, also 39mm, might seem less petit than the Principia you tried.
Best,
Tim
Definitely noticed the De Berthunes....
... will have to do some serious googling for a few weeks. I like to spend long flights with wifi reading up things like this. Fortunately I have a long existing wish list across all kinds of brands, and remain in touch with your team. See you there soon 
I hate that for you! I’ve been there before—disappointed with a piece I was in love with. Thoughts on their Parallax Tourby? Checkout the RG Logical One. Moving to a different style, what about the Zeitwerk by Lange?
I own a Zeitwerk Striking Time
… so you see how I am ok with big phat watches, and that we share a taste
Too bad! But...
I think there are much more interesting watches in the price range, and it's better to have a big wrist than a small wrist because most of the crazy cool independent stuff is quite large.
The Romain Gauthier Logical one springs to mind. 43mm.
MB&F perpetual calendars are pretty big too.
The Armin Strom Mirrored Force Resonance is 44mm and ~11mm or so thick
And if you can swing it....some Greubel Forsey stuff trades for ~$120k - $180kish...some very interesting pieces especially pre ~2019-2020 floating around. They are chunky but incredible...
They'll do custom work too
Have mine coming in later this month hopefully. I'll post a review when I get it. Have spent a lot of time with the Principia too.
Argh, hate it when that happens! I prefer larger watches and have experienced the same when I was super excited to try a watch on only to realize that irl it looked tiny on my wrist.
Most disappointing for me was the Voutilainen Observatoir, so beautiful but when I finally got to hold one it was so tiny... and I know that's a traditional size so it's not the watch, it just made me feel like I needed to go on a diet! 😭
On the plus side, with the trend towards smaller watches there are lots of options if you can and want to go bigger. I like my watches in the 42-44mm range so I'm with you on the Principia case wearing small. Some of my favorite big watches:
Staying with Gronefeld I really like the Parallax Tourbillon sized case, totally different style/design from the Remontoir but fit my wrist a lot better and definitely had presence.
I like the De Bethune suggestion, most of the De Bethunes are on the larger size so they've all been designed accordingly. The DB25 lugs are down turned a bit, the DB28 lugs articulate, you can go any size you want in De Bethune and have the wrist presence of a larger size watch but the wrist fit of something much smaller... and the way the lugs look is amazing from all angles....
1916 has a GF S1 available and that is one step up in size to 41.5mm. While not that much bigger its a noticeable step up from the Gronefeld in wrist presence. What I really like are the traditional 43mm cased watches from Greubel, 1916 has a Vision tourbillon in that case and there have been other movements as well in that rough case size, some thicker than others, and I think those all have great presence. For some reason the convexe watches don't fit me that well, even the new smaller ones, those need to be tried on for fit irl imo.
Similar to the GF above, the FB watches are a really nice (larger) size. Round, octagonal, whatever I think they all wear well though I did think the octagonal case wore smaller than I expected, I prefer the FB2 round case options.
And of course there's everything from MB&F. Kinda like the De Bethune, they make the lugs work for all their watches but unlike the De Bethune, the worry is less fit on the wrist and more catching pockets/door frames, etc cause they can be real tall... but that's part of the appeal, truly 3d design
On the plus side, with the trend towards smaller watches there are lots of options if you can and want to go bigger. I like my watches in the 42-44mm range so I'm with you on the Principia case wearing small. Some of my favorite big watches:
Staying with Gronefeld I really like the Parallax Tourbillon sized case, totally different style/design from the Remontoir but fit my wrist a lot better and definitely had presence.
I like the De Bethune suggestion, most of the De Bethunes are on the larger size so they've all been designed accordingly. The DB25 lugs are down turned a bit, the DB28 lugs articulate, you can go any size you want in De Bethune and have the wrist presence of a larger size watch but the wrist fit of something much smaller... and the way the lugs look is amazing from all angles....
1916 has a GF S1 available and that is one step up in size to 41.5mm. While not that much bigger its a noticeable step up from the Gronefeld in wrist presence. What I really like are the traditional 43mm cased watches from Greubel, 1916 has a Vision tourbillon in that case and there have been other movements as well in that rough case size, some thicker than others, and I think those all have great presence. For some reason the convexe watches don't fit me that well, even the new smaller ones, those need to be tried on for fit irl imo.
Similar to the GF above, the FB watches are a really nice (larger) size. Round, octagonal, whatever I think they all wear well though I did think the octagonal case wore smaller than I expected, I prefer the FB2 round case options.
And of course there's everything from MB&F. Kinda like the De Bethune, they make the lugs work for all their watches but unlike the De Bethune, the worry is less fit on the wrist and more catching pockets/door frames, etc cause they can be real tall... but that's part of the appeal, truly 3d design
Only issue with the Ferdinand...
They will lose a ton on secondary and there's no way to buy one used, since they never seem to pop up. So the other options will have an exponentially lower cost of ownership if you're buying used like OP is?
IE if I buy a Logical1 for ~$120k and get bored, maybe I lose $10k. If I buy a Ferdinand Berthoud new, I am losing $50,000+. A friend of mine has one and they are exceptional watches of course, but not being able to go preowned for one turns me off personally as I'm a bit too much of a watch hoe.
IE if I buy a Logical1 for ~$120k and get bored, maybe I lose $10k. If I buy a Ferdinand Berthoud new, I am losing $50,000+. A friend of mine has one and they are exceptional watches of course, but not being able to go preowned for one turns me off personally as I'm a bit too much of a watch hoe.
Agreed! I'm hoping the FB depreciation will be devastating so I've been looking and haven't seen anything come up on the pre-owned market so far.
Yeah same.
It's nice they are owned by Chopard. All the benefits of being independent without any of the drawbacks IMO.
But if they are never popping up
and there are none for sale, are they really losing money?
I would assume so given almost no independents sell at a premium and the wait is not long for FB
When a brand does sell at a premium it's because its unobtanium.
Maybe new but market pricing today means the Gronefeld Remontoire, Greubel S1, MB&F HM9 are all in the $100k-$150k range. FB3 msrp new is in there, FB2 preowned is yet to be seen... but good point on the dress watch - updated pic
GF vision tourbillon not too crazy and the toubillon is in the same spot as the Gronefeld remontoire
Yeah, I was confused by that too. Gronefeld Remontoire is over $100k so I figured we're talking under $150k?
Remontoire price at double MSRP is a little crazy imo, I'd rather spend $100k on a MSRP $200k watch than $100k on a $50k watch...
100-150k
I believe in Grönefeld, I think they're going to continue to put out cool watches. But I don't buy watches as investments. But by the same token, I am happy to spend that amount of money on three or four very cool watches...
100-150K
But happy to spend that on several less expensive cool watches... Or not at all.