Vacheron & Constantin ref 3620 - The "Don Pancho", 1936

 By: anon438 : March 27th, 2019-14:30
Phillips: Link
New York Times: Link

Estimation: XX.XXX.XXX,XX $

Recommendation for the aficionado: Buy it immediately, without limit, there is just one occasion within lifetime.

completely wonderful [nt]

 By: tactictac : March 27th, 2019-15:50
No message body

Voice of the Angel

 By: anon438 : March 27th, 2019-21:21
From 'Voice of the Angel: History of Vacheron Constantin Minute Repeaters 1'
by Alex Ghotbi with support from Vacheron Constantin
31st of October 2013
" ...According to my good friend George the minute repeater is a very useful….travel watch ! Before my wide eyes and gaping mouth as how could someone so knowledgeable have such little clue “hear me out” insisted George, “it is a watch for the intensive traveler” he continued. “When you wake up in the middle of the night and have no idea where you are just activate your minute repeater and if you hear a soft and loving voice asking you what that sweet sound is? You know that you’re in your hotel and traveling, if a rough voice tells you to stop playing with your watch and go back to sleep…you know you’re at home!”

Other than these traveling...or rather matrimonial issues let us take a step back. Repeating watches were first created out of necessity….that of telling time in the dark. The 1st quarter repeater was invented circa 1675 by English watchmakers Edward Booth, Daniel Quare and Thomas Thompion but the Priviy Counsil of London issued the patent to Daniel Quare in 1687.

The Quarter repeater would chime the hours and each quarter however the 1st watch to be able to strike the minutes appeared in the first decade of the 18th century even though attributed  Thomas Mudge in 1750.

In these watches bells were used for the chiming but in 1787 the use of gongs (circular strips of steel) as we know them today were developed by AL Breguet and this enabled the repeating watches to become much thinner and to emit a clearer note.

Even though extremely popular in the 18th century, the invention of the safety matches in 1845, making it safe to light candles as well as the arrival of electricity and luminous hands at the end of the 19th century, repeaters became more and more rare and reserved to a handful  of makers.
Vacheron Constantin made its first minute repeater pocket-watch in 1812, before combining striking mechanisms with major complications throughout the following decades and created its first wristwatch minute repeater in 1930.

In a letter addressed to Vacheron on Oct 1819 Constantin expresses his satisfaction at the news that the repeating watch manufacture is operative and at last he will be able to offer them to his customers “make attractive guilloche examples so that they are appealing, to get the greatest reliability…and make the pieces in our name with light cases for those who want them without their becoming too expensive”.
In another letter from the same year he continues “Now that you are organized for this kind of item you can make them reliable in such a way as not to fear reproaches, and one of our names will give them a great deal of favor”
One of Vacheron Constantin’s first multicomplication wrist watches was the ref 3620 from 1936.
Made for a client in Spain this unique gold tonneau shaped watch features the day of the week, the date via a retrograde hand and a minute repeater.The dial has the originality of having the numerals in blue rather than the habitual black.
It is believed that this is the first wrist watch to feature a retrograde hand (something which became a trend in the watchmaking industry 60 years later!).

Resurrection of an early Haute Horlogerie Grand Master Complication Wrist Watch

 By: anon438 : March 31st, 2019-03:47
How to valuate and appreciate such a find?

First of all, it was a great effort for Vacheron specialist team to bring this treasure back to grandeur.


 By: tactictac : March 31st, 2019-09:11
I would have kept one of the previous dials; the one in 2019 is for me too new and swears with a watch of this age...

The dial with the Breguet numerals was never delivered and

 By: alex : April 2nd, 2019-06:53
the original dial comes with the watch

The New Horizon

 By: anon438 : April 1st, 2019-12:52
I've seen several questions about the dial, and it's a quite good question, what would be an appropriate thought. But I will come back later on this topic again.

First of all I would think this question arises from a very first impression. My first impression was, those watch was used. Not just little used and of course not only seven years as suggested. If you look at that dial I would suggest, it was handled by unqualified hands and it's quite a luck that there wouldn't be a bigger damage.

But this very first impression would bring us quite far away from an objective view, isn't it?

I would rather think we should firstly discuss, what kind of bird is this watch.

It's a Grand Complication wrist watch, what basically mean, it's a wrist watch with a combination of several complications in it. A minute repeater, a calendar and a retrograde date display.

Of course there are endless discussions which complication to prefer or rate higher, but there is no question that the minute repeater is a higher grade complication. And a higher grade complication in combination with further complications like a day date calendar and retrograde day indication would end up to be a Grand Complication.

And it is not only the very first wrist watch with this Grand Complication design form Vacheron & Constantin, it's also one of the very first compared to others at all. A piece unique build in commission. Not as some try to suggest one of three, since the others samples display other complications.

The Grand Complication was not invented at this time, it was the further miniaturization development, to put such a Grand Complication in a size of a wrist watch, what end up to be the big innovation.

If you look closer at the movement you can clearly spot the highly refined design and finish which obviously indicate a Haute Horology product, easily on par with others alike.

This very first Haute Horology Grand Complications in wrist watch size pushed the trend to miniaturization, which started with the very first wrist watches commonly believed developed for Santos Dumont, pushed the technical possibilities even further to a completely new horizon.

This is the historical significance of that watch not only for the history of Vacheron & Constantin but also for the modern human civilization in total.

And all the other criteria like provenance, physical shape or appearance, even consistence or case material are in my opinion quite far minor factors for valuation. This watch is simply an one-of in the end.

The Don Pancho - Innovation Driven by Purpose

 By: anon438 : April 13th, 2019-12:55
Coming back to the dial, the original dial is off course the real stuff, it bears the evidence about the original story of this watch, the signs only a real life could draw.

As the story tells us, this watch was built for an individual called 'Don Pancho' who was in the mining business, in need to see and hear his watch when strolling around his latest acquisitions.

At that time in the European sense a probably super-rich from the 'New World', since everything outside Europe was the 'New World'. A predecessor of the today's Tycoons from all over the world.

This purpose driven origin is for me the most significant indication.This watch was on the forefront of innovation, it was made before the Haute Horologerie Maisons start to build Grand Complications en masse.

But now the more practical question: It is wearable? Oh yes, of course it is.

The Moment of Truth

 By: anon438 : April 17th, 2019-22:42

The International Perception Review

 By: anon438 : May 1st, 2019-00:55
江诗丹顿 don pancho : Very little to nothing to find in Chinese language about the Vacheron Constantin 'Don Pancho', from no interest or from no awareness - who know's? , ‘Museum Quality’ Watch Rediscovered After 60 Years Heads to Auction , Phillips To Offer A Unique 1930s Vacheron Constantin Minute Repeater , Highlights from the Phillips Geneva Watch Auction ,, spend some time with the Vacheron Constantin "Don Pancho" , Vacheron Constantin ‘Don Pancho’ Minute Repeater , The Unicorns, White Whales, And Rare Birds The Geneva Watch Auction , Sought-after Vacheron Constantin ‘Don Pancho’ , unique Vacheron Constantin Don Pancho , Vacheron Constantin : la mythique Don Pancho , Mise en vente de la mythique Don Pancho , o Vacheron Constantin ‘Don Pancho’ , Phillips presents the "Don Pancho" , ‘Museum Quality’ Watch Rediscovered After 60 Years Heads to Auction, Vacheron Constantin Ref. 3620 «Don Pancho»

And many, many more to say...

 By: anon438 : May 1st, 2019-01:39

First I was a little disappointed about the perception and the comments droping here and there.
Most of them simply copy from Phillips initial words, but very little were able to provide an own opinion.

And that from such bright and illuminated bunch of Watch Experts.

What would be my main points, what wasn't said yet.

- How to compare this watch to others in the horological history - Phillips Auctions suggested to look at the Minute Repeaters from James Schulz and Patek Phillippe, that's a hint in the right direction. But the J Schulz - really? Would you put him without question beside the valued output of the Grand Haute Horologie Maisons? OK, I wouldn't. No way.

- Why not look to the others you would expect able to have similar output? Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Breguet, Haas Neveux and others

- Why not look to the other first timers and first innovators? Cartier: The Santos-Dumont, PP: The first wrist watch Minute Repeater, ...

- Why not look further at the great provenance watches? The Graves, The Packard, The Count de Boisrouvray - the many significant others in V&C history.

- Why not tell the people some further details about the provenance. The incedible life of those super rich in the South Americas, outperforming the elité and also the aristocracy form the Old World.

- What about the last auctions? The top relevant PP watches - all bought back form the owner Philippe Stern. What does this mean for valuation of such rare watches? Are they, by far, under valuated?

And many, many more to say...

Don Pancho in chinese

 By: xiaoxiao : May 7th, 2019-19:13
i think it should be “唐 潘乔” 

Don Pancho in Chinese

 By: anon438 : May 8th, 2019-02:53
As far as I understand, there is no way to translate names into Chinese.


 By: xiaoxiao : May 8th, 2019-05:29
150 years ago, telephone translate to chinese named "德律风"

It is a Name

 By: anon438 : May 8th, 2019-08:20
Don Pancho is a name, there is no meaning. Don is something like Mr. or Sir but mabybe less formal than 'Sir' in the british sense.
Pancho is just the common short form from his real frist name.
Yes, they could be created with Chinese signs.
But there is little to find in Chinese language about this mentioned watch, isn't it.

I'm sure that

 By: xiaoxiao : May 8th, 2019-17:39
 I'm the first person who send a picture of this watch to the social media Wechat in China.

Is there interest about vintage watches in China?

 By: anon438 : May 9th, 2019-02:41
Is there any interest about vintage Vacheron?
Or do they generally prefer the new watches better?

Hmm.. i do understand chinese language..

 By: Teacher Yang : May 9th, 2019-03:06
And if there is interest in china for modern VC pieces.. i think there are interested in vintage VC pieces as well..

i think vintage vc collection

 By: xiaoxiao : May 9th, 2019-06:39
are uncommon in china. rare than vintage pp ,rolex,omega and longines.

Asia collectors always have interest

 By: Teacher Yang : May 9th, 2019-19:01
Thats why VC tour the vintage pieces around.

Maybe there is no infomation about vintage VC watches available? [nt]

 By: anon438 : May 9th, 2019-07:51
No message body

i think they prefdr new watches better.

 By: xiaoxiao : May 9th, 2019-06:37
vintage vc interest are rare .

In-deep information about vintage Vacheron in Chinese language

 By: anon438 : May 9th, 2019-07:50
Is there any in-deep information about vintage watches in Chinese language available?


 By: xiaoxiao : May 9th, 2019-12:54
i think Chinese collectors also have a huge amount of informations about vintage vcs. But it's rare for us to be more willing to talk about a vintage vc in public through social media.

Why they won't share info about vintage VC online?

 By: anon438 : May 9th, 2019-20:03
It is a good way to enhance knowlege, it a complex topic with a lot of pitfalls.

there is a question

 By: xiaoxiao : May 9th, 2019-12:59
You and I are equally interested in vintage VC. Are you a private collector or an official representative of vc?

I'm private

 By: anon438 : May 9th, 2019-20:05
I'm representative of myself, nobody else.

Engineering degree, located in Germany.

I know there is someone here

 By: Teacher Yang : May 9th, 2019-20:13
Looking at this VC forum.. Personally, i think he is the top specialist in VC watches.

That is understandable..

 By: Teacher Yang : May 9th, 2019-19:05
And it also apply to most brands..
But VC do have some really good nice vintage pieces. Let alone the really rare ones. Those are the real deal.

Hi Student !

 By: Teacher Yang : May 9th, 2019-18:57
Your nickname here is nice 😂
You are part of a Wechat watch collector group or ?
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