Comments:
Baselworld 2014: On the Zenith Pilot Type 20 'Extra Special'
On the occasion of Baselworld 2014 Zenith has (more or less) quietly introduced the model Pilot Type 20 'Extra Special', a stainless steel 45mm automatic watch:
I have not seen the watch nor did I know on its existence, but thankfully you form members were more astute than your moderator… ;-) What you also immediately discovered was the movement inside - a common movement not manufactured by Zenith (Sellita 300) - how on earth could this happen?
I have not seen the watch nor did I know on its existence, but thankfully you form members were more astute than your moderator… ;-) What you also immediately discovered was the movement inside - a common movement not manufactured by Zenith (Sellita 300) - how on earth could this happen?
Has Zenith, the purebred movement manufacturer, changed tracks?
I inquired with my contacts at the manufacture, and was was told that the 2012-introduced Type 20 collection received such an overwhelming reception, particularly by young people who would like to wear such a piece but could barely afford, that the brand decided to offer a more affordable version.
The result is the Pilot Type 20 'Extra Special', as mentioned a more pedestrian (if you like) version of the otherwise completely in-house collection. The controversial use of a common movement is justified by the goal to offer a Pilot in the sub-5000 CHF price range, thus between 25 and 33% below the next upper models of the collection, the 40mm Automatic and the 48mm GMT, respectively (both of which use the in-house Elite movement).
The watch btw is referenced after an 'Extra Special' pilot's watch from the 1940s.
I still do not know enough and have not fully understood this move. Thus I refrain from posting my personal opinions at this time.
More to come!
Magnus
They rightfully called it Extra Special because of its movement. ;)
Sorry, but I don't see it as a good nor smart move from Zenith.
The Special risks to loose its " Special " due to this low ( Cheap? ) offer.
Of course, that would be different if they decided from the beginning to launch this Watch with such a movement. But downgrading it, horologically speaking, is not very smart, in my opinion.
Of course, too, the non Watch nuts will not care about that " detail ".
Best,
Nicolas
Thank you for clarifying
Speculation on other forums has gone rampant with harsh criticism of this move, but the explanation given in your post makes it understandable.
This Type 20 line is proving to be hugely popular, and a pillar collection for Zenith. Competition in the pilot segment is fierce, but Zenith have credibility and history in this space, so am glad to see them regaining market share in a segment dominated recently by Breitling, IWC, even Alpina, Bell & Ross, and others.
I have no issue with Zenith's move here since it is clearly to do with production capacity and consumer demand, and Zenith will continue to produce Elite and El Primero's.
I will happily add this "Extra Special" to my collection.
Looking forward to hearing your take on this unexpected move,
Dean
5000 or 6300 CHF doesn't make any difference
You have 2 types of people, those that don't care about watches and those that do care about watches
The first group will take their phone to see the time or maybe they will buy a cheap watch ( a few hundred CHF max)
The other group, those that buy expensive watches consists of 2 separate groups
The first group is not really interested in watches but they want to make a statement and therefor buy an expensive watch ( stays symbol) Probably this group will mainly buy the well known Rolex, but some will eventually evolve and they will discover other brands like JLC, IWC, Zenith, and all the others
The second group of those that buy expensive watches are people like us. We are interested and buy what we like after learning more about a specific watch.
Zenith will not sell a watch to people who are not interested in watches and never spend more than a few hundred CHF on a watch.
They need people who want to spend more. ( those that buy the status symbol or freaks like us 
I can't imagine Zenith needed to make a cheeper watch. Those that can and want to pay 5000 CHF will also pay 6500 CHF. There is not enough difference
If 6500 is way too much for you, you'll think exactly the same about 5000.
The only reason I can think of is that the LVMH group is demanding more El Primero's for brands like TAG and Hublot and doing so Zenith gets capacity problems. The solution they choose was buying watch movements from other suppliers.
There is imo no need to lower your status, and that's what they do cause most watch enthusiasts will see this as a step down.
Imo not a smart move in a luxury market.
They are already the brand with the most bargains, everybody will agree, there is no reason to make cheaper watches
I am a BIG fan of this brand but this is a move I can't support.
Bruno, 5000 CHF (US$, £, €, ...) is considered an important psychological barrier...
which is industry-wide recognised. I think that Zenith had a 'cool' watch here, which attracts many non watch aficionados. Trust me, there are a lot of people who spend considerable amounts on watches whiteout caring a tiny bit about a manufacture or ETA movement, as long as the watch is 'cool' (see above), mechanical (and thus as a vintage-oriented pilot's watch authentic) and comes from a recognised brand.
Plus, Zenith is (at least in Europe) traditionally considered something like a 'confirmation watch', a watch you present your god-child/child for confirmation, bar mitzvah etc. Thus, here the 5000 CHF... barrier is even more important - god-fathers, parents etc. have limits.
Furthermore, I have been told (and I believe that knowing my source very well) that this watch sold tremendously well at the fair. So guess they know very well what audience they are targeting.
Still, I am not entirely comfortable with Zenith's move. It somehow coincides with the arrival of Jean-Claude Biver as overarching 'god" of LVMH watch division. This begs a lot of questions which I would like to have answered...
Bruno, I am with you in essence, please give me a few days time to sort out the loose ends.
Cheers,
Magnus
Yes I agree Bruno.
I also got this explanation. The capacity of production is focused on providing more movements to other LVMH brands.
A pity.
Fx
A pity.
Fx
It was not the reason given to me...
The reason I got is to dedicate the full capacity of the manufacture to produce the El Primero movement (which is now used by Hublot) and so to reduce the production of the Elite.
I think that everybody was shocked by the news. The change of price tag? Not so convincing reason in my point of view.
Here is a wristshot:
On the other hand, I appreciate to see a Pilot Type 20 with a central second hand... I was very seduced by the watch to be honest with you.
Fx
This message has been edited by foversta on 2014-04-01 11:43:30
I think that everybody was shocked by the news. The change of price tag? Not so convincing reason in my point of view.
Here is a wristshot:
On the other hand, I appreciate to see a Pilot Type 20 with a central second hand... I was very seduced by the watch to be honest with you.
Fx
This message has been edited by foversta on 2014-04-01 11:43:30
It certainly is an attractive watch
It is sure to fly off the shelves despite having an outsourced movement. Most will not know it has a Sellita heart.
This will certainly have some positive effects on brand recognition that balance the negative effects of outsourcing. Since it is not a complete move to outsource and Zenith will continue producing El Primero's, I think it is a smart move,
Dean
I think
I think the lower cost issue might be solved by still having the Elite movement but with very basic finishing?
Surely it will lower the cost and since it has a solid back it also makes more sense to do that.
Surely it will lower the cost and since it has a solid back it also makes more sense to do that.
But
The last numbers I saw were Zenith selling 33,000 watches in 2012, less than Patek Philippe and at an average price point significantly lower. I would hazard a guess that they would much prefer to sell 100,000 watches in their price segment, and given they apparently have production issues arising from having to provide El Primero movements to the LVMH Group, this sounds like an easy business decision. Yes, it may be an unpopular decision amongst watch aficionados, but it should result in broader brand recognition, higher ROE, and Zenith gaining market share in the mid tier price segment.
Dean
nice watch
Great looking watch from a very prestigious manufacture, at a more affordable price... What's to be negative about? To the layperson with minimal watch knowledge, Zenith's claim to fame is that they used to make Daytona movements. That's it. This move will only result in a broader market share, which is what they need anyway. Survival is more important than intangibles(ie rarity and exclusivity)
The reality is that people aren't lining up to buy Zeniths. It still seems to be a brand that caters to the more "knowed" buyer.
The article about Dufour moving to Rolex mentions Zenith being in financial distress after the Nataf era. Making more exclusive pieces with higher price tags doesn't seem like a sound survival strategy to me.
Zenith is in the process of rebuilding itself. Reaching a broader audience can only help.
1000 CHF makes a difference, Especially to bargain seeking cultures.
Depending on the audience, certainly!
1000 CHF can make the difference between buy or stay away. May of us cannot imagine this, but wearing a timepiece from a renowned brand may have a strict 'pain level'.
I am curious to see hoe the brand develops under a new leadership - will we see more of those entry pieces?
Best,
Magnus