Zenith

A few weeks ago I came across this Zenith Defy Xtreme Tourbillon Titanium Chronograph and took a quick cell phone pic. It's a discontinued timepiece as Zenith has gone from avant-garde to mostly classic references.  But still an interesting timepiece from the previous era of Zenith production.  Quite substantial as well— that even though this is a titanium cased watch, it is still about 190 grams of weight within its 46.5mm case size. The 1000m/3330 feet of water-resistance rating to go with the tourbillon movement seems like two ends of the watch worlds crashing together to bring this result—but it is a fact that this watch has both features! 

from the Nataf era .... Been a long time since I have seen one.

They have all but disappeared from the ADs I frequent.

This must be a NOS ?

 

 

Hello F.

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I confess, I'm not a fan myself  but are those offshores that much better ?

The carbon Allinghi, the Survivor, the Grand Prix , ....

Imo they are as ugly as the Defy watches ( most Defy watches) but somehow, when they have 'Audemars Piguet' on the dial everybody accepts them and a lot of us even like them

 

So why is it OK  when AP make such a thing but terrible when Zenith did it ?

. . . and I think the answer - if there is one - is related to the continuity of development of AP's RO / ROO over decades in comparison to the flowering of Zenith's Period of Excess.  In AP's case, the trend was gradual and linear, while in Zenith's, it was brief and ballistic.  AP's audience had ample time to acclimate, while Zenith's had none.

"Period of Excess" definition.

This explains perfectly that times and the produced goods.

Zenith seems to follow a sinusoid route of ups and downs for a long time.

I'm hoping that the current path targets the ups.

Let's wait and see.

Cheers,

Nilo

And I concur with your analysis wholeheartedly.

That's the main difference why.

Cheers,
Anthony

I kove a RO and a 'normal' ROO

but the survivor, Grand prix, carbon Alinghi, ...  I really see no difference between these and a lot of Defy watches

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And how often you see pics of happy wearers...

While you can see, quite often, the ROO you don't like.

Not that these ROOs are my taste, but this is a fact.

Without Smileys...

Well, at least one. 

Best,

Nicolas

This message has been edited by amanico on 2013-01-14 08:04:41

don't take my reply too serious ;-)

But on the other hand I really mean it, I think they would have sold better if they kept better price.

I have no idea how many Defy's Zenith made and sold but I'm sure there are plenty of them.

The one in the picture is a watch I would not buy .... imo too ugly

 

but this one .... not so terrible imo

 

 

and this is one I even might buy one day

 

 

 

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and many people see the difference that's why these watches aren't the same as the Zenith Defy Extreme watches.

It's probably safe to say that many more people see the difference and like the look of these Offshores as compared to the Natif-era Defy Extreme watches

Cheers,
Anthony

The main reason why DEFY failed is not because the designs are ugly and not because there was no ground to stand on for Zenith.  The was a strong following for DEFY, actually even during the good times, it found it to be one of the best selling pieces and most talked about watches during that time.  It brought Zenith from being a collectors only name to a house hold name.  

This is a subject very near and dear to my heart... before I bought my JLC NS GMT Chrono, I was putting money aside for the original Defy Xtreme Open.  I bought my JLC over that for more than a few reasons.  Those are something I'll get to later in my post.

These "extreme" watches, made by companies like Audemars Piguet, Zenith, Hublot, JLC, for example, all had different agendas in their design specifications, but were likely trying to reach the same market demographic. 

AP, for example, wanted to keep the basic structure and movement of the symbolic Royal Oak Offshore series and make an "extreme" example of it, some to showcase their new ideas on materials to use (forged Carbon, ceramics and titanium); but it would ultimately still be an extremely recognizeable Audemars Piguet.  If you really dig into it, besides more lume, certain materials and pusher "protectors", there really wasn't much structurally different between any of your "themes" AP ROOs and your AP ROO Survivor.  With the Alinghi, "Bumblebee", Grand Prix, 44mm ROOs, Survivor, and even the RBII, that's all it was.  The movements, depth rating (except for the AP ROO Diver for obvious reasons), and basic structure of the watch were mostly the same throughout those and the regular themes series.  However, these watches can be read as easily as their theme counterparts, some even more so with the added lume on the dial.  There was even more exclusivity to these watches, as the numbers were very low and the price was pretty outstanding.  In all, they were exclusive, they looked like proper APs, were exclusive, and had cool use of materials, and were also marketed towards AP owners, not just the standard demographic.

Zenith was different; they made their Xtreme line with an outstanding depth rating, used great lume in the hands, and used materials that could easily convey the "extreme use" capacity of their watches, all of which were designed from the ground up.  They wanted to have looks, a sense of the practical (I'll get to that in a moment), and make them tough enough for everyday use.  The problem is that while they were tough, they weren't exactly practical.  The Defy Classic had a bit of that; you could tell the time in those watches.  The Defy Sea Classic series had lumed numbers instead of metal numbers, and were quite viewable in the dark.  With the Xtreme series, you'd be hard pressed to figure out exactly what time it was when you really needed to.  The best metaphor I can make on the matter is that they're "built like a tank, and as practical as one on a British back-country road."  Even more so, these watches had an air like that of a concept car...beautiful to look at, but didn't have the refinements necessary for everyday use.  If there were viewable numbers/indicators with more lume added, it would likely have sold better.

The biggest mistake in my eyes that Zenith of all these companies had done wasn't just numbers (a post someone made before me, which was quite true), but marketing.  Most of these Xtreme watches were marketed towards a youthful, wealthy crowd, with an attempt at looking both badass and debonair.  The PVD/DLC watch market was in boom at the time, focused on that crowd.  The lack of proper advertisement, what seemed to be a back turned to the Zenith purist, and sheer lack of credibility due to impracticality made these a bust.  Look at the Felix Baumgartner and his partnership with Zenith...if that wasn't a marketing masterpiece I don't know what is (the guy could actually benefit from the watch, if his visor didn't fog up).  Instead, we got guys who drive Lambos, Aston Martins, speed boats/yachts and oh yeah, fly helicopters (to the golf course) and F-104 Starfighters; not professional divers, extreme-sports enthusiasts, or SF Operators for example.  I'd say that there was more research to be done on the market (who can really benefit from this watch?) as opposed to marketing towards a cliche.

I bought my JLC because I could actually use it/read it, it had a GMT hand plus associated day/night indicator, a date, and it had the approval of some people close to me.  The Zenith Defy Xtreme Open had a DLC coated titanium case, kevlar and titanium in the bracelet, carbon fiber on the dial, and a seconds/minutes chronograph with no date with an open turbine-looking object that looked cool and had a purpose (dial/movement shock absorption).  IMHO, however, I could not rely on that for any purpose other than it looked good and I could get a roundabout time; if I dove with it, I probably wouldn't be typing this post right now.

That all said, IMO, on a conceptual art scale (concept being the key word), the Xtreme series were masterpieces.  The sheer look to them with their avant garde design, layered portions of the dial, and cool use of materials like kevlar made these watches look "extreme".  Even the last of the Defy Xtreme series (the all black "Air" series, though they really weren't named), with a bezel looking like it was designed from the Stargate and a flyback function, had nice distinguishable touches.  But, as I've said on another post before, if you're shelling out the money for one of these watches, it's not really to tell the time, is it?

Regards,

Chris