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Zenith

Cal 135! How I'd love to get something... Like that.

 
 By: amanico : January 14th, 2017-09:30




+1 from my side: like that is just perfect, nothing to be reinvented! [nt]

 
 By: massi. : January 14th, 2017-14:52
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Perfect article! Very timely!

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : January 14th, 2017-09:44
Can you ask Mr. Biver to address these points!?

I will - certainly! [nt]

 
 By: Ornatus-Mundi : January 14th, 2017-10:02
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I certainly agree with you on most points...

 
 By: JToddH : January 14th, 2017-10:08
As Zenith has certainly established its technical prowess, providing a modern "twist" to the El Primero would certainly be a step in the right direction, but one that mostly only established connoisseurs would appreciate.

My pragmatic side concedes that most purchasers of such pieces base less of their purchasing decision on technical but rather aesthetics. This can certainly be seen by the meteoric rise of Hublot in the early days, when the original ETA based Big Bangs stormed the industry. This success gave Hublot the time and resourses to emerge into the full fleged manufacture that it is today.

Zenith, on the other hand, has a rich heritage and is already technically established. In my mind, all Zenith needs to do is update the exteral design of their watches. As much as I love and respect the El Primero, many of the cases (to me) are a bit dated...and this is an area where Mr. Biver certainly excels.

My prediction is that the first line of business (that we'll see) from Zenith under JCB will be new cases for El Primero, maybe even multi-component cases that will allow more variations and yes, LEs. Knowing JCB, he works at the speed of light so I would bet that we'll see new announcements at Basel.

My crystal ball also predicts more emphasis on the Pilot series. It's solid and established with nothing to really change but perhaps some new variation.

This is an exciting time for Zenith and I've no doubt that following Basel, there will be a renewed interst in the brand.


This is a very interesting article Magnus

 
 By: Mark in Paris : January 14th, 2017-16:03
for an interesting moment of Zenith's life.

First, I think there really is a difference between people going that deep into the watch world, reading about watches on the net, and the other type of clients which have never cared about going any further than the aesthetical side and the image they have from the brand because they saw it on a friend or collegue's wrist or in a commercial. I suspect the latter crowd is a large majority.

Hence, maybe I'm wrong but I would say that the way it is sold to the public, its aesthetics appeal, may be much more important for the turnover than what's inside.

I would thus keep the very technical innovation and development (Zero-G or even 1/10th of a second chronographs which brings modernity and the fusee chaine or Christophe Columbus escapement design etc...) for rarer pieces and the pleasure of people interested in watchmaking. And of course because high-end collections add value to the lower line-ups.

And I would keep the El Primero as well and develop its popularity among the wider crowd and people attracted by watchmaking like us. Even Rolex, that is very well known for its very reliable and accurate Daytonas, are known by the watch name and not by a caliber name or number. That's also an element to notice imho as it is not mandatory and should not be considered as top priority either.

So, I think it should be starting by the aesthetical side: this is how new customers will be gained over competitors. By the way, I love the Icons Stratos and don't understand why it is not in the regular collection but put aside in the Heritage one. I know why it is there but just think it shouldn't for more visibility and the message it brings. And it should also be provided in a smaller case. A 41 or 42mm Stratos Rainbow will have such a great success imho.

The design of the 1/10th and normal chronographs El Primero line should maybe be modified but that's designer's job.

Just some thoughts.

Enjoy your trip to Geneva and thank you for the article. I'm looking forward to reading about what JCB will say about that, even if I don't like that much the full marketting orientation in order to sell a watch. I would like authenticity as well smile

Best, Mark

One way could be to have something like...

 
 By: Ornatus-Mundi : January 15th, 2017-02:53
The heritage
The contemporary
The avantgarde

That way different clienteles could be reached, and each collection could have distinct, well-developed and defined features, but also cover different price points.

A recognisable Zenith design code that could be applied across collections is severely missing, for sure.

Best,
Magnus

Great article, Magnus!

 
 By: syf : January 14th, 2017-19:44
To me there's so much under exploited quality and value in Zenith's current catalogue that marketing strategy and repositioning of the brand will certainly help greatly.

I hope we see a new Zenith emerge, and the idea of a totally new evolution of the El Primero movement for the 21st century as the cornerstone of that would be great to behold.

I do hope we continue to see their haute horology offerings continue in the future as it does so much to define the innovative and technical expertise of the brand, I only hope that we now start to see that filter down into their other offerings.

Not much to add

 
 By: Bruno.M1 : January 15th, 2017-00:16
This is so true

Zenith has probably on off the most interesting histories in watchmaking
Maybe the most important. It does not have the prestige we find a for example patek but they don't need too
Indeed, if you look at all the contests and prizes zenith won, it's unbelievable they don't use these facts much more.

Look what mr Biver did with blancpain decades ago. Blancpain was NOT a high end watchmaker ( open a 1960 50 fathoms) and what did blancpain offer us between 1880 and 1980? As good as nothing.
Nevertheless mr Biver reinvented the brand and made most believe that blancpain was top and very high and since 1735.

So if he can do all of this with a brand which imo lacks serious history, imaging what he can do if he reads the books manfred rössler and mr duval wrote.

Bruno, that is my impression as well - considering also how differently both Blancpain & Hublot developed! [nt]

 
 By: Ornatus-Mundi : January 15th, 2017-02:48
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Zenith must energize the USA market.

 
 By: rdenney : January 16th, 2017-02:18
But it won't be easy. To sell well here: it must be a status symbol, it must be more widely available, it must be advertised, it must be written up in men's style and executive lifestyle magazines, and it must be reasonably serviceable.

Nataf was the one who overcame the trademark restriction agreement imposed by Zenith Electronics when they sold MZM to Dixi. So, 2000 is The Beginning for Zenith as a brand in the US. In that time, they have made only a few watches that could become enduring status symbols, which require consistent recognizability and obvious quality and seriousness. Hublot is the brand for whimsy and extreme stylistic edge. Zenith is not and never has been, despite the Defy Xtreme.

One of the watches that could do that is the Captain of 2010 to present (though now no longer in its separate line). It has classic good looks that will not fade from fashion--completely consistent with the concept of gentlemanliness. But in America, that term won't do. Instead, think "class". Being a bit dressier than a Rolex helps with that.



Consistency is the key. Were I in charge of the US market, this is the model that would be featured in ads, worn by classy and successful executive types rather than male models. The ad would explain why it's worth the price--Rolex doesn't have to do that any more but Zenith does. The target age would be 40-60, not 30-40. Golf is littered with Rolex ads--there's a reason for that--golf is an aspirational game. Put them on the arms of executive-types in movies and TV shows, with clear brand placement. Offer them for sale in Cadillac dealerships. Etc.

Add solid three-hand chronometers, but maintain consistent styling for that targeted line. Add a dressier piece--the ladies Star cushion case enlarged to 38-40 mm and without diamonds would do nicely, in addition to the 6150. Add a diver with the Elite movement, but with similar dial styling to the Captain (or whatever it would be called). But "Captain" is a good model name for watches targeted to captains of industry and those who aspire to such. But it needs to say it on the dial, as of old.

The lines would either need chronometer certification, or a special and explicit certification by Zenith that is more demanding (as Omega has done, and also JLC with their 1000 Hours Control). Include that in ads.

And the targeted line would need to be widely available in the same stores that sell Rolex--jewelry stores. Offer better margins than Rolex, but keep prices a little lower. Make salespeople want to sell them. Support brand pricing by ending the gray market selloff through Ashford (much as we benefit from it), even if it means a buyback.

The El Primero movement is only outdated to some enthusiasts, not to regular buyers. It does not need to be updated. Only enthusiasts think the subdials on the watch pictured above are too centered. And even then it's matter of preference, not gentlemanliness. But a 16''' EP could be exactly like the current EP, with the entire design scaled up accordingly (except for the balance, of course). Multiply every X and Y dimension by 16/13, but leave the thickness as it is. Revise the keyless works to reverse the date and time setting positions so that a hack feature could be added. The larger barrel (but not larger balance) would increase reserve--similar to the new Elite 6150. It would still look like an EP, and I think it could still be called that--El Primero Grande. It would supplement the current EP, not supplant it, much as the Valgranges A07.211 supplements the ETA 7750.

The US market is a stabilizing force, but it is hard work to earn. Longines did it by plastering their name all over the sports programs of the past (a showing of ABC's Wide World of Sports would show it constantly, for example), and by advertising through Wittnauer aggressively over a prolonged period. Omega did it with NASA and James Bond. Rolex did it with magic. Heuer did it with Grand Prix racing. It can be done.

For this amazing advice, I won't charge Mr. Biver a nickel. smile

--Rick








Good points

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : January 16th, 2017-10:04
Definite yes to a chronometric certification standard for performance and advertising.

Very interesting reading Rick :) [nt]

 
 By: Mark in Paris : January 16th, 2017-10:48
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A great review! Thanks!!

 
 By: gup502 : January 22nd, 2017-19:10
The brand "Zenith" to watch collectors represents reliability and accuracy, a fairly high percentage of components of an entire watch are manufactured in-house.
Needless to say there is a rich history in horology but you are right about the brand.  The fact is they currently have two base movements.  There are other brands cannot afford to develop their own movements and use movements from others.  They need to focus on dial, case and overall aesthetic design.  For Zenith, we expect them to have the capability to offer more.

To develop a new movement at least as good as both the Elite and El Primero is quite an engineering task.  It requires a lot of investment in design and testing.  Zenith might not have the human resources even matrix system has been how projects are executed.  
If there is a new "movement", it needs to create enough 'noise' to get attention of watch lovers.
Marketing investment is one thing, but more importantly "reliability".  El Primero has been in production for so many years and the same applies to the Elite movement, if there are any known issues, they would be discovered and well documented.  The knowledge management for the two current movements forms the foundation of 'quality'. 

The watch industry is competitive and in general consumers have a higher demand for reliability in almost anything they purchase in the 21st century.   Social media spreads the good, the bad and the ugly like lightning.

I want to see Zenith make progress to the next level not by just offering new dials and new casing or using newer materials in movement manufacture or like you mentioned adding vertical clutch.
It will take time and to see success, a lot of factors must play well to create a great choreography.   That is a real challenge.

Hi Magnus

 
 By: 41northpole : February 10th, 2017-09:03

A very worthy post on the current position of Zenith.  In the UK it seems Zenith really doesn't seem to capture the imagination of the Omega and Rolex buying public like it should, with the heritage behind it (I could say the same for Longines, just look at their back catalogue compared to where they are in the market today). 

Zenith somehow just never seems to get to that critical mass where the general public, as well as watch nerds, feel it has the 'value' of those other 2 brands in particular.


I know it appeared universally hated but I really liked some watches from the Nataf era.  I have always coveted one of those Zero-G monsters you show that everyone else seemed to hate.   I have a mad 1000M defy extreme chronograph which I love to bits, as much for it's madness and a legacy of the 'more is better' era of watchmaking that affected that time, as having the El Primero in it.


As per your picture above of the range of Zenith, it has a little of the splatter gun effect of trying everything without hitting a visual style that can be said straight off to be 'Zenith'.  Compare with a range within Omega, say Speedmaster or Seamaster (and anything from Rolex) where you can spot the style at 50 paces.  Nearest I think Zenith have got to that recently are the Stratos models with a very clear bezel design showcasing the dial


As to where the company goes next, I agree they have a fantastic 'Chronometry' record but how does that sell to the marketplace in an effective way.  It would prove tricky with todays technology to be more chronometrically pure than many other brands


regards


Tim