Patek Philippe

Hi everyone

5004p

The movement shot. 5204 is new in house movement 

 , 5004 is lemania finished by patek.

Much appreciate your participation. I really look forward to the answer This message has been edited by Iceman on 2013-09-22 02:33:41 This message has been edited by Iceman on 2013-09-22 02:37:04

I don't like the large Patek Philippe font on the 5204 nor am I thrilled with the hands which seem more apropos for a sport watch.  And, why is the moon upside down on the 5204?  Last time I looked at the moon is was up high in the sky!

I still prefer the 5004 in any metal over the 5204P; however, I do actually like the fact that the 5204p has lume and is 40mm...though some would argue lume should not be on a piece like this. I think the 5204P could replace the 5004 as the ultimate daily piece for me.

... that the hands are Wg compared to the proto that was oxidized hands( your last pics). So your 1st pics is exactly how the watch will look like.

Both watches are excellent on the outlook.

5204 has a bigger dial while 5004 is slightly smaller.
I am not sure if I am accurate here but i have read somewhere that 5204 is the replacement reference of the 5004, or something along those lines.

While 5004 is smaller, It actually has a busier face. Both the dial at the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock is "double mapped"
The 5204 however does not "double map" its dial at the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock position.
Together with it's slightly bigger dial, it looks less busy.
It seems to me that if the movement of the 2 reference can be interchanged, it would have been perfect. This is because the busier dials of the 5004 could do better with slightly more space while 5204 dials would not be any way affected negatively by a smaller dial.

The 5204 simplifies 2 complications of the 5004.
1) It turns the 24 hour indicator to a day-night indicator.
2) it turns the leap year indicator to a "numeric" leap year indicator.

On point number 1, many people would think that this simplification is trivial. For me, I have no problem with either. (although i will mention a slight disadvantage later) A day/night indicator should sufficiently function as the a.m/p.m indicator for the 5204. 5004 having the 24 hour dial simply has more detail.

Putting myself in the shoes of owning and appreciating a 5004, I could imagine myself appreciating the "accuracy" of the 24 hour dial. I could constantly look at the 24 hour dial and see if it indicating the 24 hour accurately. For example, at 3 pm in the afternoon, the needle on the 24 hour indicator should be exactly midway between 12 and 18. This is the fun which a "day/night" indicator on the 5204 will not get to enjoy.=) To be honest, I did not really notice the day/night indicator on the 5204 when I first stumbled upon some pictures. On some 5204 pictures, that window showed a white dot and on others it showed a blue. I did not know what to make of it until I read some reviews. Thus, I could say that the day/night indicator on the 5204 is not intuitive to everyone; especially those looking at the watch for the first time.


On point number 2, I think the 5204 having a "numeric" leap year indicator is not a problem also ; provided that whoever looking at that window know what those numbers indicate. It's not an issue at all and takes very little time to figure out even for someone looking at it for the first time.


I think there are 2 group of preferences here. There are those who like details featured on dials and there are those who can do with a simplified dial. The first group would like the 5004 and the second group would like the 5204.

However, I must say that the 5004 is not flawless. Having 2 double mapped dial, it is inevitable that when the shorter hand on each dial coincides with the longer hand of the dial, that is when there could be a slight confusion. Visually, one would see one needle and 2 dial markings. Though this does not occur 2 frequently, when it happens, the dials could be "ambiguous". Of the 9 o'clock dial for the 5004, it happens once every minute. Of the 3 o'clock dial for the 5004, it could happen when the chronograph times a duration up to 30 minutes. I guess that's a small price to pay for a big addition of detail.


Balance:

For the 5004, the center of the needle are collinear forming a straight line that is describes the case diameter.
For the 5204, perhaps having the luxury of space, the centre of 3 and 9 o'clock dial are not aligned with the hour and minute hand dial centers. In fact, the dial for the 5204 are lower than the diameter. That makes the 5204 dial a little heavier below the 3 to 9 o'clock dial.

As a result of this, the dials push more onto the day/moon phase dial. So is there any problem ? I would say a slight one. From looking at many pictures of the 5204, there is a little distortion of the chronometer second markings(at 6 o'clock, where the words "swiss made" are)  for the 5204 due to refraction ! It is significantly more observable for the 5204 than the 5004. I have not seen either in the metal but pictures of both reference gives me this feeling.

So my verdict is that 5004 is still a "little teeny weeny" bit more attractive to me(of course) than the 5204 discussing the above points.
I guess if I would to pick between the 2, I would go with 5004 as my wrist takes on a sub 40mm dial watch better and that itself is enough a tie- breaker.

Cheers.


 
 




  

 All are wonderful and valid points , especially to akitaishi for the detailed comparison. 

The 5004

This message has been edited by Iceman on 2013-09-22 15:58:21

The 5204 with the hands and baton hour markers like 5004/A or polished white gold...perfect! 5004/A is the best of the best, but in 40 mm it would be to die for

in stainless, not platinum.  As I recall this is the 5004 with the black baton markers, similar to 5970G. It looks great. 

Long time no chat, hope all is well with you.

 I had the pleasure of handling the 5204P and a 5004p baton markers in Geneva. Both are fantastic! However, like the 5270 and the 5970 ( i own both). The newer release it a far better watch from movement and fit and finish. Again, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  The 5204 is a amazing. The only thing I am not in love with is the upside down moon face but it doesn't really bother me. 

Just the guy i was hoping to get some answer , someone w handson experience on the 5204. Hope u dont mind i ask you a few more question.

1) It is slightly bigger in diameter than the 5970. The 5970 is truly 39mm. This is a true 40MM. It is a little smaller than the 5270 but not by much. It is also thicker than the 5970 and sits higher on the wrist. The case feels bulkier as well. Just more volume to it compared the 5970 case.

2) IMO- The 5204 have a better look than the 5004. I still am not a huge fan of the upside down moon face but it is would change my opinion about buying one. The dial is much easier to read than the 5970 and the dial is much bigger. The 5004 has some traditional characteristics like the 5004 and the 5970 from a case perspective but the dial is clean and easier to read like the 5270. All in all I like it better. The 5970 is hard to read with the tach. The tach gives it personality in exchange for legibility.

3) The one I have on in the picture was taken at Patek in Generva. The dial was creamier. There wasn't very good light in the room and the walls were that Patek light wood that gives off a yellowish feel. Maybe mine was a proto type for something. Here is a shot of it in the tray. 

 

 

Thk you very much for the comprehensive reply. Its indeed very helpful.

what are we talking about, 5004P or 5004A? Second and last picture shows 5004A. Maybe a small difference for some, but for me it would be a huge one. I can appreciate the weight and colour shades of platinum, but the dial makes the biggest difference for me and therefor I would prefer the steel version.

5204 vs 5004. This question is almost philosophical, isn´t it?

I like them both for what they are and both for different reasons. If I had to choose I would go for the 5004A, just because it feels much better on my wrist

Some pictures, if you don´t mind:


5004A



5204




5204 first & second (production) dial

5204,my vote goes for the latter dial. Some may prefer the first one, because it could be collectible ...

Oliver

If i had a chance on the 5004A, this thread would not exist )) hehehee......

and if there is a "club for mortals" - count me in

Best,
Oliver

Do I understand correctly that there have been 2 production versions, the one with the lighter hands and markers being the current version?  This version looks too "washed out" to my eye. 

PM sent

enlighten us all, very curious on the two dials? One with black hands, one with wg silvery hands? One with a creamier dial? 

... i am not sure that the 1st batch of 5204P had the dark hands and indexes. I think it was just on the proto. I think that the production watch had Wg hands and indexes. If you ask me, they both look great. Just wished that the dial would be a little bit more "alive"... ala 5270G.

(as  I trust my reliable source) there was a dial change for a good reason. The first batch (not only the proto´s) looked different and some have been sold.

... good to know. Anyway, looks amazing in both configuration!