Patek Philippe

IMO I would say....

Patek=Ferrari

Audemars Piguet=Lamborghini

A.Lange & Sohne=Porsche

Rolex=Mercedes-Benz

Panerai=BMW

This week I have visited 3 Patek AD's,  the interest thing was  a Patek sales person always mention or says owning a Patek is like owning a ferrari.  I personally drive a Mercedes and wear patek.  what about you? 

...NOT to spoil this thread, as it might be an interesting comparison for some watch fellows here, but one AD told me recently that
PP will become the next Rolex !

Sounds odd, but was ment with this was the incrising popularity of PP.

To be utterly honest: I thought the same about PP as being like a Ferrari, but as I am not particularly into cars, I prefer the watch as my favorite object of desire.

IMHO all, these watches and cars, are the same: luxury items !

Cars are in that sense a more "blund" way of showing the surrounding one's status, as watches are reserved for the connoisseur to understand ...


Regards

Moritz
This message has been edited by COUNT DE MONET on 2010-08-07 02:57:39 This message has been edited by COUNT DE MONET on 2010-08-07 02:59:44

A very interesting analogy indeed. Some would equate Patek VS Rolls (especially PP5102 etc) & AP vs Ferrari.

Lange VS BMW.

 

Henry Hoe.

No message body

shouldn't a Ferrari be like a Patek?!  : )

Panerai: Range rover- due to it's size, interesting and unique shape, and somewhat iffy repair record.

Rolex: BMW: they are ubiquitous, high resale value, good repair record, moderately priced

Omega: Audi: always fighting to get BMW sales and notoriety, but the product might be just as good. Plus they have them in lots of movies, just like Omega and Bond.

Seiko: Honda, relatively inexpensive, work great, etc...

Patek: Ferrari/lamborghini: whichever, expensive, gorgeous, a little fragile, costly to repair.

Lange: Bentley: a less sporty with less curb appeal, but damn nice!

AP: definitely porsche, now with bigger porsches being produced, just like the ROO, with the VERY classic Royal Oak being the 911 of watches.

Vacheron: Rolls Royce: great name, old company, but no particular models that have truly penetrated the market.

My take on the list (and I have looked at the brands listed at the top of this page and felt free to add some):

Patek=Rolls Royce (sorry, Ferrari is too fancy for Patek

Jaeger leCoultre=Aston Martin (why: a distinguished gentleman's brand)

Breguet=Bentley (I must be honest that I am struggling with Breguet. But I think it is one of the great brand with status, history and tradition, and for that it reminded me of Bentley, but could have been Jaguar as well).

Lange & Sohne=Porsche (technological superiority, but somewhat clinical and perhaps does not always create the 'desirability' of some of its exotic peers)

Richard Mille=Pagani (mesmerising and out of the ordinary)

Audemars Piguet ROO=Lamborghini (exotic and raw)

Audemars Piguet Millenary=Maserati... off course

Panerai=Ferrari (history, Italy, passion)

Rolex=Mercedes Benz (mass production, ultra reliable and built like a tank)

IWC=Audi (vorsprung durch technik ....)

Glasshute=BMW (a bit unconventional / different from the rest, but technologically perfect)

Key question: what brand do we think is the Bugatti? Bugatti is really an exotic car, extremely limited edition and should be compared to a very limited production watch brand, I think of eg Philippe Dufour and then the Grande Sonnerie. It does not fit a brand like Patek which has 100s of different models, as Bugatti has in its past just had a few....

the GO/BMW comparison quite interesting and valid....

Cheers

It shows a distinct lack of knowledge about the car market. Patek is more like Rolls Royce for it's use of modern technology, hand construction and traditional materials. Lange is more like Bristol - very traditional but with really high tech materials in a hand built form. Porsche is more Rolex. It's a fun game but let it cross country borders and the cliches those contain.

I am like the Count, in that I am not that into cars.  For me a car is something to get me where I need to go, purely functional.  I grew up with a father who always had car magazines around ( a Jaguar enthusiast ), and I never understood the interest.  I think I do now as my passion for watches increases.  Just as car enthusiasts like to look at models for fun or drool over that which they cannot have,  I  spend a lot of time looking at watches and imagining what it would be like to posess the high end pieces that interest me.  A watch is just like car in that it is not just the outside, but also what is "under the hood".  I read many posts that imply that a watch of exceptional beauty must have an interesting or well made engine in order to be a top notch piece.  For some a watch is just something to tell them what time it is.  I find that I can wear some of my nicer pieces and I don't even care if the time is set correctly.  I am just enjoying the light playing off the crystal, or how well the thing is put together.  I drive a Toyota, and own 2 watches that are worth more than the car.  Some think that is nuts, but it seems perfectly normal to me.  So, in relation to the original post, I will keep the Toyota in the garage and hopefully have a Ferari, Porshe, Mercedes, etc. on my wrist or in a case in the house.

Stewart

... the Count does not have ANY car !

I can afford not to have .... ;-) !


Regards

Moritz

maintenance costs, order transactions for "interesting" models, ...

Oliver

For me--I drive an Audi S 5 Cab and my sports car is a Porsche 1996 993 Turbo--last of the hand made air cooled turbos--with only 10k miles on it! For me I wear a 5960P and 5146P and having owned a Ferrari in the past would never buy one again! Anyone who has gone through one belt change can tell you why! Porsche/Audi--reliable and understated class--just like Patek!!

i think Pateks are more mercedes-like, but more like in this "order"

calatravas and gondolos- C class

aquanauts - SLK

nautilus - CLKs

annual calenders - E class

travel watches - M class

perpetual calenders - CLS

chronographs - S class

tourbillons - SL

celestial - SLS

minute repeaters - various AMG varieties

sky moon - Maymach

 

Very interesting.  I have a 993 C2S.... Last of their cooled 911's.

That's completely incongruous to associate a Patek with a Ferrari.
Patek is conservative, high quality, and expensive which just screams Rolls Royce.
Richard Mille is not conservative, exotic, and expensive, which just screams Ferrari.

I'd say:

Richard Mille=Ferrari

Patek=Rolls Royce

Audemars Piguet=Maserati

A.Lange & Sohne=Mercedes

Rolex=Audi

Panerai=Chevy Chevette

Eric von Schonberg

In 10 years time, most cars will become electric, or at least hybrid, so what do we compare....

Patek starts making battery quartz watch to save the environment???

And so are the rest of the watch brands... all become Casio?

I hope they'll stay mechanical forever!

Sorry I would never compare my Patek to any car brand, don't forget some of these car companies have been sold, or resold and some have almost gone bankrupt. Yet Patek is still independent for almost 300 years, going strong financially and creatively.

Car brand is too cheap to compare to Watch brand, imho.

time. 

Creativity? Don't think I would agree on that point.

Independent?  Yes.

Going strong financially?  Absolutely...for now.

I do believe it is very clear the past twenty-five years has been very kind to Patek, not only financially but the awareness and demand of the product, which has pushed them to levels which they have never experienced.  This has come with some baggage, QC problems, applications to buy certain pieces, ability to change dials and hands....restrictions. Now it seems they are evolving to a more mass produced "high-end" watch which may open the door for another firm to fill the gap that Patek has chosen to abandon.  It's happened with automobiles and, watches are no different.

When money is involved and when we are talking about the type of money that Patek has captured recently, being able to adapt and maintain all the "expected" inherent qualities and services of quieter times is an incredible challenge that I would dare say, not many firms (not just watchmaking or automotive) have been successful.

The car/watch associations are interesting but when I saw them, I realized that my relationships of the two products was influenced by historical reputation and maybe really good marketing.  My personal experiences show quite a different mix of associations from those posted.  Maybe a different thought would be, if you had to choose just one watch and one car that you had absolute confidence regarding reliability over all others.  What would they be?

... what you are saying regarding PP :

as I mentioned in my answer here: an AD has the impression as if PP will be the next Rolex.

 

Also right about the QC issues: I have seen, quite a few, PP watches with imperfections at various ADs: marks on the dial, NOT working pushers of an 5140, coroded RG small second hands, ...

 

Further more:  the new PP seal is for me a very good chance to "outsource" the manufacturing to low wage countries.

The Geneva seal was at least something that made sure that it is really a pruduct from Swiss.

 What I also noticed: in the past the anker wheehl as well, and not only the balance wheel, had a shock absorber.

Same with the numbers of bridges in a movement.

 

In conclusion: not everything is conclusive in the state of PP !

 

The ONLY brand as an exemption was A. L. Soehne ! : the only watch that I have bougth, that was really flawless.

The Rolex, Omega and the PP that I own, purchased new from AD, had all minor, but still imperfections.

 

So, if Lange, as a relatively new company does in the future still watches of these calibers, THAN it will take PP over.

 

Regards

 

Moritz

This message has been edited by COUNT DE MONET on 2010-08-10 05:18:18 This message has been edited by COUNT DE MONET on 2010-08-10 05:27:46

Members of the general public are much more familiar with cars than watches. So I guess it makes some sense, as a starting point, for a salesman to equate watch brands (many of which are unknown to much of the public) to car brands, even if only to account for the wide variety of prices. Appealling to someone's ego commonly works wonders when someone doesn't know any better. Often I have seen people looking in storefronts and wondering how a watch could cost so much.

I don't think car brand equivalence is any more than an interesting conversation piece. Having said that, I would equate Patek more along the lines of Rolls Royce than any other brand.

The car I actually drive is irrelevant as I have a range of watch brands but only two cars.

Regards,

Richard.

as below :

i think Pateks are more mercedes-like, but more like in this "order"

calatravas and gondolos- C class

aquanauts - SLK

nautilus - CLKs

annual calenders - E class

travel watches - M class

perpetual calenders - CLS

chronographs - S class

tourbillons - SL

celestial - SLS

minute repeaters - various AMG varieties

sky moon - Maymach

 

 

... somehow.

Especially - annual calendar : E class; both are representatives of business class

Just one more thought: What happenes with the order when WISs spend more money for watches, than for cars?
E.g. driving E class station wagon and owning several complicated PPs, or even driving a B class with 5970P on his wrist

At the end it is/could be a question of priorities, isn´t it?

Oliver

And the comparisons made between the watch and the car.

I tend to agree that Patek is equal to a Rolls Royce, Bentley or Mercedes.

The rest I am not so sure about, so I shall leave to the experts.

I remember telling a colleague that PP was the Rolls Royce of watches, to which she replied, "...so what does that make Rolex, the toyota of watches?".

but trying to pigeonhole into some very general "order"

 

I would agree with this order....

And, as PP, several models of Mercedes are highly collectible.....

Cheers

1.  Pricey

2.  Reputable

3.  History

4.  Heritage

5.  Garage queen and Safe queen

6.  Rarity

7.  Design and function

8.  popularity

Again these are just my Opinions

Cheers

Robert

i agree with most of the above factors you raised, but i isagree on some. PP does not have a low production, contrary to popular belief. range from a low 10000 to as high as 40000 pieces a year, including quartz pieces, basis several discussion on other forums cannot be mentioned here.. compare that to some say FP Journe perhaps 1000 a year and rolex 750000 per year?  ferrari produces i think ard 7000 per annum, with the California range. mercedes 1.5m and toyota pre crisis production was nearly 9m. even the price spreads between a A to S class in % terms mirrors PP calatrava to complications pricing!! bear in mind ferrari has effectively four model range currently. (pls feel free to correct me if my guestimate of prduction is wrong)

however, one point of similarity is that both Ferrari and PP has a long history of competitive spirit...ferrari in racing, and PP in chronometry tests : extract from another site:

Patek Philippe won the "limited edition" prize for the five best pocket watches in 1884 and 1895. From 1900 to 1939 - the year in which the company celebrated its hundredth anniversary - it won no fewer than 764 prizes in Geneva, 187 of which were first prizes, accounting for more than one-half of all distinctions awarded during that period. 

The Genevan firm jumped at the chance to take part in competitions held by foreign observatories. This was especially true in the 1960s, when it received England's highest accolade, the Craftsmanship Test, first awarded in 1951. Only twelve watches can boast such a distinction, with the Patek Philippe tourbillon pocket watch No. 198'423 attaining the best result ever recorded. Testing at the Geneva Observatory was interrupted in 1967 by the advent of quartz watches. 

 

There's only one Patek that's inspired by the instrument panel of a race car..

personally i thought a lange & sohne was a maybach. both german, both very luxurious and not sporty..