...on historical facts

Date: Apr 23, 2010,10:43 AM - (view entire thread)

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"Indeed, Victorin Piguet should be included in the list of specialist firms that provided chrono calibers to PP. (Although, I was inder the impression that the majority suppliers since the 1960's were Valjoux cal. 22/23 and Lemania cal 2320.)"

Here's some information I wrote in 2002 on the Piguet watchmaking family, based on documentary and oral history research I had done in the context of AP -

"Because of the common last name in the company names for F Piguet and Audemars Piguet, it is often asked if there is any direct relationship between these two companies.

F Piguet is an indepedent movement maker that was instrumental in the re-birth of Blancpain. Until Swatch (then SMH) acquired both F Piguet and Blancpain, F Piguet was essentially the movement side of Blancpain, though many other high end houses used F Piguet movements, and have for quite some time.

F Piguet has no direct business ties to Audemars Piguet, though there are some ancestral connections. Piguet is a fairly common Swiss last name, but Le Brassus is also a very small town / village.

AP has used F Piguet movement blanks and ebauche in the past, and currently uses the Piguet 1185 chronograph movement in the Royal Oak Chronograph.

The Famille Piguet settled in the Vallee de Joux in the late 15th century. One of the first Piguet's to get into the watch making business was Charles August Piguet, who set up an ebauch manufacturing facility in the late 1700's. There came a long line of Piguets after this, and the name is an important one and is inextricably intertwined with watch making in the VdJ and the Vaud.

Interestingly, the Audemars and Piguet families were involved together before the famous Jules Audemars - Edward Piguet pairing of AP fame. There were two predecessor companies, Audemars Freres, which iteslf was a spionoff of Louis Audemars, and Piguet-Meylan, which involved Piguet cousins (?) and a brother-in-law of Louis Audemars.

By the late 1800's, several eponymous companies were extant, including Louis-Elysee Piguet & Fie of Le Brassus; Charles Piguet of L'Orient (the original home of Lemania); and Victorin Piguet in Le Sentier.

L-E Piguet evolved into Frederic Piguet in the early-mid 1900's (1940?), Frederic Piguet being the nephew of L-E Piguet (Oesterhausen)

There has been some question and speculation about the relationship of V. Piguet and F. Piguet. Les Fils de Victorin Piguet was doing some of their most famous work for Patek, including a large part of the famous Packer and Graves Super complications, in the early to mid 1900's (1905-1945?), so there would seem to be a bit of an overlap between Victorin Piguet and Frederic Piguet as extant companies. This would lead me to question any direct lineage between V Piguet and F Piguet, though there could very well be less over-arching ties between the two.

The common linkage between all these companies is the Piguet name, a mastery and focus on ultra sophisticated complications, and the family crest - a rearing horse with a flagstaff (or spear) and three stars.

Around the turn of the 20th century, L-E Piguet also supplied to AP many of the ebauche (rough movements) which were in turn supplied to Duerrstein and Glashuette Union, one of the leading watch companies in Glashutte at the time, currently the home of A Lange and Glashutte Original and most of the German watch industry. The L-E Piguet workshops in particular were famous for high complications, with a specialization in chronographs and rattrapantes. They also produced some incredible repeaters and sonneries, some of which are shown, with audio file, lower down on this reference page. One of the finished Louis-Elysee Piguet complicated pocket watches was to become the base for what will be the world's most complicated wristwatch when it is finished and officially unveiled sometime before the end of this year (there have already been plenty of sneak peaks on the work in progress.) This wristwatch is patroned by a regular member of ThePuristS community.

TM
copyright 2000, 2002"

"Also, to my knowledge, PP began production of own calibers only (some years) after the Sterns bought it in 1932. (LC tried to buy, but Sterns eventually got the company.)"

I don't recall the dates and details from memory, so I can't comment. JLC has documentary history of this aspect of the history, but are understandably reticent to offer public access, and those with past access are understandably reticent to speak publically on this subject.

"VC have had and still have an in-house production of the 13"' repeater movement. It was the only in-house wrist-watch movement they've had until recently. But they did have one "

um...define in house. To my memory, the calibre was based on JLC base movements with a Dubois Depraz repeater design, and I believe this is (or has been) publically acknowledged by VC. (I'm a big fan of this movement and the watches that resulted, so please do not take my question or comments as any question on the "worthiness" of the movement or its watches.

"As to the past, going back eones: after G.-A. Leschot (a talented engineer working for VC) modernized "serial" movement production in mid-19c, VC became a supplier of pocket watch ebauches to the Swiss industry. This is well known. (Who knows, maybe PP bought ebauches from them too.)"

um...I thought we were talking about wristwatches?

"AP did create from scratch many pocketwatch calibres, VC some as well, I believe."

By the way, a common misunderstanding by many enthusiasts (I'm not concluding you are included in this group) is that the pantograph designed and used by Leschot allowed for parts production that made them "drop and play" interchangeable. This is actually not true, the tolerances were pretty loose by todays standards and would be less than the equivalent of today's "rough cut" initial parts production, requiring quite a bit of handworking and fitting.

I wrote this back in 2000; in re-reading it, I would probably re-phrase some of the more potentially misunderstood statements.

"

Efforts had already started, a few decades before, to create machines that could produce, reliably and consistently, precision parts that could then be used in serial production. G-A. Leschot's breakthroughs were in designing machines that could produce parts that were of sufficient quality and precision that they were interchangeable in the same caliber. They did, however, still require hand finishing to be usable on an interchangeable basis. The production and cost efficiencies realized were such that Vacheron and Constantin quickly became a major supplier of components and ebauche to other watchmakers. They also remained a dominant manufacture due to the resulting cost efficiencies. That Leschot played a critical role in Vacheron and Constantin's survival and growth during those glory years cannot be over-emphasized. It can be reasonably argued that Leschot's machines were a key factor in the success of the Swiss bar movement design. No less a landmark work than Karl Marx' Das Kapital makes reference to Vacheron and Constantin for successfully introducing machine work into the watchmaking process. Suffice it to say that Leschot and Vacheron played pivotal roles in the industrialization of watchmaking, hitherto a cottage industry, and blazed the path for future watchmaking titans Omega and Longines.

G-A Leschot was the creator of a number of other mechanical and machining breakthroughs, including a process for drilling with a bit tipped with a crown of black diamonds.

"

Cheers,

TM

Patek Philippe

This is fun!

...on historical facts

Thank you Thomas, Yves, Nicolas, all others for this discussion!

Now that's an excellent idea, Jerome.

Are you fearing something Nicolas? nt

Except a pain in the hair, nothing else... :)

I fully agree with what you write AJ!

As the in house finish of the movement by VC

The problem with these discussions, Nicolas, Yves, is that this sub-discussion

No problem here Thomas

Thank you, PoyFR

Thanks to you and Jerome for your historical inputs.

yes...let the sons of these classics go head on!!!

Very interesting review Nicolas

Thanks for your nice words, Patrick

Great and thorough review. Thank you for sharing.nt

Thanks a lot, my friend.

Fantastic ...

Thanks, Chris

THANK YOU !!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Bruno

Great Review

LOL, Quan, my pleasure! [nt]

Well, so much fun to read this review, Nicolas!

Thanks a lot, Respo

I salute to YOU ..... a wonderful report !!

Thanks a lot, tic-toc. [nt]

Fantastic work. A pleasure to read.

Muchas gracias, Vicente. [nt]

Excellent comparative review!

Of course, I could have included some more Chronos