Patek Philippe

Dear Guys,

A friend of mine recently received this Patek 1518.  It had spent 40 years in a safety deposit box...so the good news is that it was never polished and the hallmarks are unbelievable.  The bad news is the degredation of the dial (sorry the photo is so bad).  Anway, the patina of age on the dial is actually great in real life, but the "black dots" are the issue.  I don't know what to advise him to do, but I said I would ask.  It seems to me 3 questions are obvious:

Question #1.  What do you do about the dial.  Ignore it and enjoy the watch or send it to Geneva.  If it goes to Geneva are there 3 options?  Opiton #1 - some type of "acid wash' to remove the  spots or lessen them, but retain the patina of age.  Option #2  - a restoration where the lacquer comes off and the dial looks almost new , but with all loss of age patina/?  Option #3 - something goes wrong in the restoration process and it ends in the dreaded"new dial."  So, what could Patek do to lessen the dark spots or does it have to be a full restoration.

Question #2.  Why di this happen?  Is it a result of mositure or is it simply breakdown of the lacquer/paint on the dial?  If a  the 1518's are not waterproof and some moisture got in awas this what affected the dial, or is this just normal aging?

Question #3. Patina of age vs the "mint of restoration."  Most watches show a patina of age which I assume is due to chages in the lacquer finish of thedial over the years.  Yet, the majority of 1518s I see in Patrizzi's  photographs are absolutely immaculate and with no patina of age.  So my question becomes - what is our "gold standard"?  How can any 60 year old watch be truely "mint" and not have a patina of age?  Have all of the superb watches we see in photogrpahs have had a "little touch up" or even a major restoration?  If these watches sat in a safe in Geneva for 60 years what would their dials look like?

Anyway, I would love to hear people's thoughts both specific as to what do with this dial, but also the whole question of what our standars are as collectors. - patina of age even if there are spots or "mint restoration" or is there truely a "virgin mint."

Thanks,  Rollin

T

 

 

 

 

I would not mess around with the dial and keep it as is.

lovely watch !!

Roni

 

It's a magnificent and rare watch;  the first series Patek perpetual- chronograph.

Beautiful watch, your friend is a lucky man indeed.

Cheers,

Arthur.

 

 

This is a magnificent watch, very rare and personally I think patina or ageing or whatever you want to call it is important. At some point the condition of the dial will be such that it needs work but  not yet.

Those marks could be oil from the movement, discussed earlier or even fungus!

 

Personally I would send it to PP for an OPINION and definitely not let them work on the dial until you have personally spoken to them This is an important watch and I think PP will spend an inordinate amount of time with the owner explaining what can and cannot be done. If they say they could clean the dial without changing the patina or character it may be worth considering. Time and cost here should be secondary.

 

Thanks for showing

Julian

There are ways to clean up the fungus without affecting the patina.  I recommend
sending it to Patek to have this restored.

Although the watch is waterproof, all air has some water in it.  When there are
temperature changes, the water vapor in the air can condense and form drops
of water, providing a means of growing fungus.

Most likely he kept it in a safe to preserve it.  Ironically, had he instead worn it
every now than then, it probably wouldn't have the fungus problem.
Eric von Schonberg

I must admit that I am not familiar with the type of dial on this reference as I will never own such a watch... Many Patek dials have their "printing" done in black enamel instead of just a simple laquer printing. In case of enamel it would make sense to have removed the old protective laquer and have it re-coated. This would result in a perfect dial without effecting anything of the script and printing of the scales (so the watch would remain factory authentic). If the "printing" was done in laquer I would not consider a restoration at all. In this case I would have treated the fungus-dots (if they were really fungus??) with a fungizide (done by Patek) to stop a further growth and leave the rest of the dial as is. Kind regards
erich

Patek definitely ought to take a look at this watch.

simply wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow : best vintage patek of ever !!! congratulations! !

 

 

Don't restore the dial but try to ask for a NOS dial. Well... they may still have it around... you know... anything magical can happen with Patek.

AND

Keep the old dial untouched.

However, even they do have the NOS dial, I am not sure if they allow you to keep the old dial...

Anyway, I would suggest you to contact Patek  (Geneva) directly. I am sure that they are more than happy to discuss with you about the restoration of your 1518. They may come up with solutions that you may never think of.

Remember, contact Patek in Geneva. I have a feeling that they care their watches more than anyone else.

 

After recovering from the sight of this wonderful timepeice and read everyone comments:

May I recommend that you contact a friend of mine at HSWA in New York for his advise.

If nothing else he can direct you to someone in Geneva. Please PM me for his name.

Promise that whatever you decide you will post several scans of this classic. Best, Miki

Hi, I saw your post.  I have friend who can clean this dial under a microscope - if you are willing to take a chance.  I personally would leave it, BUT (before you laugh this off) this guy performs this service for the most influential dealers in the USA and the world.  I just had him clean a Breitling Duograph split second dial from the 1950s, and it came out spectacular.  He can minimize those dark spots.  He will NEVER do anything that will put the dial in jeopardy.  His work is amazing and his techniques are propriatary - sort of like people who clean old paintings:  the don't repaint them, they simply have ways of cleaning them that  bring out the original intention of the dial.  Honestly - I would probably leave the dial, but I can tel you from personal experience that this watch artisan can do wonders on a watch like this, and has worked on watches at this level many times.  PM me if you would like more information.