Comments:
Pantone Color of the Year...
Last year was Blue, this year is Grey...these people must be psychics 🧙🏻♂️
Can they define something more happier 😅
Can they define something more happier 😅
Great looking 5960, Raymond.
I like it even better than the blue dial version. Best, V.
Thanks my friend...I thought about the Blue version as well.
Then I feel we already seen too many blue dials in recent years, hence I chose this original version.
Have a wonderful weekend.
Have a wonderful weekend.
Perhaps the most elegant of the many 5960 iterations, also emphasized by the choice of strap! Congrats ;-)
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That’s a nice recognition Prof....makes me feel I did the right thing 👍🏻🙏🏻.
Yes I thought the grey strap will match better than the original brown.
I’m all ready for color of the year 😊
Oh...
An amazing piece... is it a new addition? If so congrats and perhaps we have to revise the Purist roll call and add another 5960 !
I got this in June 2020
Thanks Keks and I think I did add in the roll call...to my surprise, SS is not the rarest (here is the polls, assuming it’s a good representation and also from C24) so I feel the Pt versions offers great value.
Of course your LC version is the special one 👍🏻
I think so too, curious why it wasn’t categorized as a grand complication for a AC + Chrono.
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One of Patek's requirements for Grand Complication is that the watch has to be double-assembled.
The 5960 movement is not double assembled. But it's definitely a great timepiece, I like it more than some grand complications!
Double assembled?? Like Lange?
Wow, I didn’t know that, don’t remember seeing them advertise.
It's not an advertised fact.
Lange is one of the few brands who do it for every watch they make (currently, but not always in the past, and they may change this for the future). But they didn't invent this idea, this is an idea that has been in practice for decades with many other high-end watch brands.
Got it, read your response below. Thank you....strange still the procedures are not standardized.
Many complications or grand complications are built from based calibers.
I would imagine an AC + Chrono should be complicated enough to be carefully assembled following the same procedure listed below...all of them needs to be regulated, I assume to ensure accruacy, that step 3.
I would imagine an AC + Chrono should be complicated enough to be carefully assembled following the same procedure listed below...all of them needs to be regulated, I assume to ensure accruacy, that step 3.
Yes, you're right!
You're right, but many times a watchmaker will just regulate the movement after the initial assembly and not perform a second assembly. The second assembly is really something quite special as it's not entirely necessary, only necessary if you want to nearly eliminate scratchmarks on plates since these plates that are prone to scratchmarks will be decorated only for the second assembly. You'll also notice that new movement architecture is going to have lots of plates and bridges (chronographs are going to start having everything covered up) so that way the movement is less visible. Manufactures will claim this is for accuracy as more plates add rigidity to the movement, but it's also because the movements are cheaper to build and easier to maintain. Bigger pieces and fewer of them generally can help reduce costs.
This would suggest the 5960's movement is made in an architecture designed for high quality mass production...
Keep in mind, in a special low-volume production watch, the parts don't always fit together perfectly. The watchmaker has to troubleshoot, file down some pieces, shave some pieces, etc. to get things to fit. That's why the watch is not usually fully decorated, since these adjustments from filing and shaving would obviously ruin the decoration and it'd have to be redone. Obviously, it's not good practice for any watch company to do unnecessary work and redecorate pieces, so many pieces are not fully decorated for the first assembly and then fully decorated for the second assembly.
When Patek debuted the 5960 in 2006, it was said they spent a "fortune" developing the movement. It was designed to be a well finished movement, an easily serviceable movement, an easily assembled movement, and it was also one of their first large production vertical clutch movements. In anticipation that this was going to be a movement of considerable volume and made for many years, it was likely approached with this in mind... Whatever we can do in the initial design and concept to save money down the line in assembly, would be a good investment. Thus, they probably spent a lot of time and money to make the watch easy to assemble. Spend the money in the initial investment of the design to save per unit costs down the road. This totally makes sense if there is a large planned unit production.
For low volume products like split seconds chronographs and minute repeaters, this is not always the case. It would take too much time and money to get the design perfect initially. Thus, most companies would choose to just spend more time assembling the movement. Yes, the watchmaker will have to spend some time shaving parts and filing parts down to make them fit, but it'd be better to do this than to get the movement schematic perfect from the very beginning. Also, even if you get the movement schematic perfect in the beginning, it's not always possible for your production to produce them perfectly every time.
When Patek debuted the 5960 in 2006, it was said they spent a "fortune" developing the movement. It was designed to be a well finished movement, an easily serviceable movement, an easily assembled movement, and it was also one of their first large production vertical clutch movements. In anticipation that this was going to be a movement of considerable volume and made for many years, it was likely approached with this in mind... Whatever we can do in the initial design and concept to save money down the line in assembly, would be a good investment. Thus, they probably spent a lot of time and money to make the watch easy to assemble. Spend the money in the initial investment of the design to save per unit costs down the road. This totally makes sense if there is a large planned unit production.
For low volume products like split seconds chronographs and minute repeaters, this is not always the case. It would take too much time and money to get the design perfect initially. Thus, most companies would choose to just spend more time assembling the movement. Yes, the watchmaker will have to spend some time shaving parts and filing parts down to make them fit, but it'd be better to do this than to get the movement schematic perfect from the very beginning. Also, even if you get the movement schematic perfect in the beginning, it's not always possible for your production to produce them perfectly every time.
Thanks for the detail explanation Patrick...
If I look at their perpetual calendars, whether it’s 240 Q, or 324 S Q, they don’t seem to be that complicated as compared to the 5960....thinking Chronographs are more complicated than PC?
Also, forget about secondary skewed pricing, these 5960/5905s are high up near the PC from retail MSRP, which I assume the brand priced them according to the complexity or production margins.
Also, forget about secondary skewed pricing, these 5960/5905s are high up near the PC from retail MSRP, which I assume the brand priced them according to the complexity or production margins.
In addition to what Patrick said, let me add that, at least informally, you can view the "cutoff" for Grand Complications at the perpetual calendar OR split second chrono level.
If a watch has *at least* one of PC, split second, or of course tourbillon, MR, etc., then you can expect to find it in the GC collection. (This is of course a nonexhaustive list; see for instance the sky charts, which have also been included in the GC collection.) However, an AC, or "simple" chrono, or WT (or any combination of the above) generally won't qualify ;-)
Cheers.
Cheers.
Thanks Fab...I do understand where the cutoff is from their website...
I’m just did not understand why 2 complications not equal to 1 grand complication 😉
No worries. It is what it is and I’m sure PP has a reason and like what Patrick explained, it’s their way they manufactured the movements.
No worries. It is what it is and I’m sure PP has a reason and like what Patrick explained, it’s their way they manufactured the movements.
👍I see your point, and all of these are informal/somehow subjective categories, so I don’t see a reason why they shouldn’t be adjusted in the future if the need arises...but there’s definitely some consistency in the expectations😉🥂
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Yes, the pricing is a good indicator, but not a perfect indicator...
Supposedly a 240Q is a Grand Complication movement but not the Chronograph annual calendar from a 5960. It's hard to say whether a chronograph is more complicated than a perpetual calendar. Chronographs of varying variety (cam-type, column-wheel-type, vertical clutch, horizontal clutch) are all available at fairly low price points. Generally the least chronographs start around the $5000 pricepoint (although many of these are cam-type instead of the preferred column wheel type) where the least expensive perpetual calendar start at around $10,000 (Baume et Mercier or Montblanc).
Pricing done by the brands are surprisingly not done by production margins nor costs at all. It's purely based on assigning the watch to a price bracket in the market. For instance, an annual calendar isn't that much easier to make than a perpetual calendar actually (although the annual calendar doesn't go through double assembly). But Patek Philippe priced the annual calendar to be right between a time and date Calatrava and a perpetual calendar and that's where it's going to stay. If you look at the number of parts; the annual calendar has more parts than a perpetual even.
Permit me to explain...
1. Watch parts are decorated, some watch parts that are near adjustment areas (where scratches may occur) are not highly decorated.
2. Watch movement is assembled. Fitment issues are noted and adjusted.
3. Watch movement is tested, regulated, and adjusted.
4. Watch movement is disassembled. Adjustments are left as intact as possible so upon reassembly there are less risks of scratches.
5. Movement parts that were previously left undecorated are now decorated.
6. Watch movement is assembled for the second and final time. This time with as few adjustments as possible and thus reducing the risk of scratches and other fitment issues.
2. Watch movement is assembled. Fitment issues are noted and adjusted.
3. Watch movement is tested, regulated, and adjusted.
4. Watch movement is disassembled. Adjustments are left as intact as possible so upon reassembly there are less risks of scratches.
5. Movement parts that were previously left undecorated are now decorated.
6. Watch movement is assembled for the second and final time. This time with as few adjustments as possible and thus reducing the risk of scratches and other fitment issues.
Since the 5960 is considered to be a "complicated watch" it is assembled the "normal" way, meaning without double assembly. Only "grand complications" go through this double-assembly process.
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