Comments:
There was this cool Golf mark 2 with a 16 V badge, the car obviously had seen quite a life ... now check all the other cars in that picture ! It wasn't upon downloading this pic to iPhoto i noticed how UNCOOL all the other 'cars' are .... from left to right we have a Volvo XC90, a Cayenne first generation , BMW X6, BMW X5 an Audi A6 and another BMW X5 ... all these cars feature an automatic gearbox , but what strikes me even more are the high driving positions, especially the SUV's ... . The good thing about a high driving position is the better view you get over the road .. that is offcourse untill everybody buys a SUV
... .
So guys, do any of you have some specific thoughts on whether you prefer manual or automatic? High or low driving position ? Or both ?
How lazy have we become ?
As a young man i remember my doctor driving a 911 3,0 Carrera, with manual gearbox off course, the 'notaire' had this very nice Fiat 'Bertone' Ritmo 100 Cabriolet ( and a Dino for the weekend ) ... another local doctor had this nice Golf 2 GTI 16V, my uncle travelled at light speed in his E21 323i , the 'meat-barons' all had M3's, 190 Cosworths 2,3-16, a 928 manual and my best friend gave me the keys to his X1/9 ; when you saw a 7 series BMW it was mostly manual, i think just the Merc S-classes were provided by an automatic gearbox .... .
As we (and the automotive press) constantly talks about the good old days when everybody wasn't too lazy to change gears there is actually one more pretty important difference between oldskool and modern cars we forget to mention ... and it came to my mind while developing my Fujifilm in iPhoto .... (answer in the 2nd pic).
in iPhoto .... (answer in the 2nd pic).Last week i went to Brussels and stopped at the sushi-bar, the young lady's car was parked in front of the shop ...
There was this cool Golf mark 2 with a 16 V badge, the car obviously had seen quite a life ... now check all the other cars in that picture ! It wasn't upon downloading this pic to iPhoto i noticed how UNCOOL all the other 'cars' are .... from left to right we have a Volvo XC90, a Cayenne first generation , BMW X6, BMW X5 an Audi A6 and another BMW X5 ... all these cars feature an automatic gearbox , but what strikes me even more are the high driving positions, especially the SUV's ... . The good thing about a high driving position is the better view you get over the road .. that is offcourse untill everybody buys a SUV
... .These cars are driven by our doctors and lawyers these days (with a few exceptios offcourse LOL) ... which makes you wonder if they are as lazy executing their jobs :-( ... .
I for instance try to do things the difficult way .. like using sticks instead of the usual fork and knife .... drinking Japanese beer instead of one of our zillion famous Belgian brands ... .
Will our children and grandchildren be thrilled as they suddenly see a BMW X6 appear in between all the electrical gliders in the year 2059 ???? Who knows, by that time i'll be 90 years old and still dreaming of driving the bones of a Peugeot 205 GTI, shifting through the gears (and missing one from time to time), revving the nuts of the engine, lifting one of the rearwheels at 80 mph .... ... .
I for instance try to do things the difficult way .. like using sticks instead of the usual fork and knife
.... drinking Japanese beer instead of one of our zillion famous Belgian brands ... .Will our children and grandchildren be thrilled as they suddenly see a BMW X6 appear in between all the electrical gliders in the year 2059 ???? Who knows, by that time i'll be 90 years old and still dreaming of driving the bones of a Peugeot 205 GTI, shifting through the gears (and missing one from time to time), revving the nuts of the engine, lifting one of the rearwheels at 80 mph ....
... .
You all know how i can be very excited about my little 200 hp Clio, it sure is a great car, but getting out of my friends 1980 911 Carrera; stepping into the Clio you really feel jerky. I think the seats in the modern Clio are placed about 5 to 6 inches higher than the Porsche's which gives you a very odd and dull feeling. When you start driving the Clio even the manual gearshifts feel soo much easier and lighter ... so even a modern manual seems uncool as opposed to an oldskool manual gearbox ..... let's call it the "LAZY MANUAL GEARSHIFT" shall we ?
..... let's call it the "LAZY MANUAL GEARSHIFT" shall we ?So guys, do any of you have some specific thoughts on whether you prefer manual or automatic? High or low driving position ? Or both ?
If both (high + automatic), don't be offended i don't wanna be friends anymore .... .
'Lowrider' im
This message has been edited by bimbeano on 2013-08-25 12:48:51 This message has been edited by bimbeano on 2013-08-25 12:52:44
.... .'Lowrider' im
Very à propos, my friend, and superbly put.
And you didn't even mention the GPS, the ABS, the DSP, or is it the PSD, or the PDS, or the ESP, or the DSTVUZYM...
We don't know how to read a car, to brake in an efficient way, to take curves at great speed without any assistance, well, we lost the sense of driving.
Some will say it is for our security, I will say it is really boresome.
One modern car; when you have to work, and to think about zillion things is one thing.
Tasting the old school drive is the essence of pleasure.
Did I ever mention that on my old horse, I don't have any assisted direction, and that since, I don't need to practice sport anymore?
Best,
Nicolas
You forgot .....
.. next to the ABC etc .. the SM ;-)
I remember your Volvo not having assisted direction .. but i vividly remember my cousins Golf mark 2 GTI 16V not having it .. that was another issue ; it was one of the first cars with a heavy engine in the front and wide low profile tires (185/55/15). I found the steering on that car so heavy it got too difficult to drive it fast on the very small roads, i also remember driving the same car WITH power assisted steering, it also had a more direct rack (steering) ... also the ABS i find a good thing even on sporty cars.
; it was one of the first cars with a heavy engine in the front and wide low profile tires (185/55/15). I found the steering on that car so heavy it got too difficult to drive it fast on the very small roads, i also remember driving the same car WITH power assisted steering, it also had a more direct rack (steering) ... also the ABS i find a good thing even on sporty cars.Offcourse with all these bits and tricks came the horses ... over a thousand these days if you wish ... and any nutcase can drive it fast ;-) ... well, in a way .... .
... over a thousand these days if you wish ... and any nutcase can drive it fast ;-) ... well, in a way .... .Bim
The P 1800 has the same tires...185 / 55 / 15
And to park it is like having a muscular seance, I can tell you... When you know that the car is 1200 Kilos, you can imagine the effort...
The direction is heavy and not very precise, too... And you have to be very careful when you are in a curve and that the road is not smooth as silk.
But once you are warned, you take pleasure when fighting with these elements.
Now, as you said, any idiot can drive fast, because this is the car which drives fast, not the driver.
With these old cars, YOU are the driver.
And you have sensations, too.
A totally different league.
Best,
Nicolas
This message has been edited by amanico on 2013-08-25 13:41:46185/55/15 is also on ...
... the 205 1900 GTI
The 1600 has 185/60/14
The 185/55/15 is a difficult to find tire these days i think, but then my Clio has 215/45/17 and the new one 205/45/17 .. so i fear the worst in a couple of years ...
Bim
Yes,they are going more and more flat profile.
But don't worry, this dimension is not too hard to find. So, I thiink your tires won't be too hard to find, as well, as there is a limit the car manufacturers cannot exceed: Our back.
Best,
Nicolas.
This message has been edited by amanico on 2013-08-25 21:27:02Nice job Mr. Freudeano
With my wife in car I like manual + high
alone I like auto + low
Best
Yours
D
Both
My best memories are from when I had my Golf GTI 16V mark II and my girlfriend back than a Golf GTI mark I
Both of course manual. We often compteted and changed cars as well
But normal day to day traffic, and jam I prefer a auto, or DSG or whatever they call them.
So, 2 cars (as a minimum) would be preferred. A funny manual and a workhorse auto
Best
Hans
Best of both worlds indeed !
My workhorse is the one you have seen in Paris and it should get tiring with the hard suspension and relatively loud exhaust ... But in fact it still doesnt annoy me after 75K km ....
When i bought it i tought i was going to do a max of 15 K per year but i am almost at double of that.
Filip
I know that feeling :-)
... But for now, I am still in urgent need of a double garage I want to build to my house. On top of the garage we already have That will give space for at least one or two fun cars
That will give space for at least one or two fun cars Best
Hans
Always...
...a manual.
Traffic is even more mind-numbingly boring in an automatic. And you regret it even more when you ezcape that traffic onto a decent road.
As for the high driving position question, I don't really mind, but a high H-point is never a good thing dynamics wise - the heavy lump of meat should be as low as possible
The thing is, with an aging population that has already been exposed to high seating positions and a lot of tall cars out there, I think the low seating position will always be pushed to the margins.
The aging population ...
You mean us ?
When i take that Audi Multitronic and encounter a nice road i always regret it ... but when i take the old lady Jag automatic i don't ... i'm sure i'll probably be faster on a track with the A4 but it's a dull car in many ways ... biggest mis-buy in my life ... i just like the looks of it (inside and out) .. but then, who designed it ? ;-) .. the designer should have done the tech bits as well
Bim
Manual + low...I feel more in control AND
.... When sitting closer to the road gives me a better feel of the dynamics of the car....
Kind regards,
Bart
Badly lazy
Hi,
Others have answered already so I won't repeat too much.
Yes for everyday I prefer my dual clutch 7G-DCT box on my Mercedes B180. Even with a small engine such a modern box is very pleasing and efficient.
But as I think of getting a second more exotic car for the week ends, I'm more tempted to get back a manual one. That would keep me used to those (with of course a little risk of forgetting it).
Best
Dje
Very wise decision ...
High + auto for all-day boring stuff ...
Low + manual for the weekend ... mmmm, if only the weekend could start on monday and end at sunday
Bim
My choice is dual ...
I'm very boring when selecting a car.
I drive Audi cars since mid 90's. I have one with manual gearbox and all others automatic.
My last four cars are Audi A4 (I trade every 3 years) and all are equipped with "multitronic" transmission that has continuous "gear" shift.
Besides, they have the F1 style shifting on the steering wheel where I can drive, on rare occasions, like a crazy or I can use for speed reduction without use the brakes.
Lazy and sportive at the same time on a car that is, words from my daughter, "a senior citizen car" (that I am).
Cheers,
Nilo
I drive Audi cars since mid 90's. I have one with manual gearbox and all others automatic.
My last four cars are Audi A4 (I trade every 3 years) and all are equipped with "multitronic" transmission that has continuous "gear" shift.
Besides, they have the F1 style shifting on the steering wheel where I can drive, on rare occasions, like a crazy or I can use for speed reduction without use the brakes.
Lazy and sportive at the same time on a car that is, words from my daughter, "a senior citizen car" (that I am).
Cheers,
Nilo
Hahahaahaaa
Well Nilo ...
i bought an A3 in 1996, an A4 in 1998 and another A4 in 2007. I tend to stick with cars for 10 years normally, except for our two Mini's we had.
The multitronic isn't a bad gearbox ... BUT .... it actually isn't really that good either .. DSG is a better and sportier choice but at the same time also smoother than a mutitronic IMO.
But if you want the best you should buy a BMW 3 series ... preferably a 320d (if you stick with diesel) with the 8-speed ZF box ... great handling, sporty feeling but at the same time enough comfort and that gearbox .. boy oh boy what a joy !
Go out my friend for a test-drive .....
.....Filip
Mr. Bim ...
No way.
Is more possible that I buy a gold watch with diamonds than a BMW.
Nothing against the souls that drives BMW but the bad thing about BMW is only one: its not an Audi.
I drove many BMW cars in the past and ... Transmission, multitronic ... Audi rules.
Cheers,
Nilo
You drove BMW in the past ..
... but behold the future ... .
... .The new Beemers are ahead of Audi IMO ... what concerns driving dynamics off course. The finish of an Audi is offcourse one step higher than a BMW i must say.
Bim
By and large ...
BWM and Audi are German manufacturers, meaning that they know how to make great cars.
Of course, Audi knows better. he he.
Cherrs,
Nilo
Of course, Audi knows better. he he.
Cherrs,
Nilo
Nilo ... are you ...
..... shareholder at AUDI AG ????
At Audi they say "Vorsprung durch technik"
At BMW they say "Freude am fahren"
There is some truth in both those sayings ...
Bim
Based on the number of Audi cars that I acquired ...
I should.
I'm on my #8 Audi.
By far I am a "Vorsprung durch technik" person than a "Freude am fahren".
To save a visit to Google translate:
Audi: "Advancement through technology".
BMW: "Driving pleasure".
Consider that I am a faithful person only in two areas: Marriage (40 years this year) and cars.
When time comes to replace the car I start a quest, looking everywhere and I end up buying the exact same car.
Cheers,
Nilo
I'm on my #8 Audi.
By far I am a "Vorsprung durch technik" person than a "Freude am fahren".
To save a visit to Google translate:
Audi: "Advancement through technology".
BMW: "Driving pleasure".
Consider that I am a faithful person only in two areas: Marriage (40 years this year) and cars.
When time comes to replace the car I start a quest, looking everywhere and I end up buying the exact same car.
Cheers,
Nilo
I always look at the same car ...
... and mostly end up buying a totally different one .... still with my first wife though
.... still with my first wife though Trustfull Bim
Each car its own
I tend to say manual. But I've made already some other choises before:
- Multiple 5 series with automatic gearbox. You know when spending each day an hour in some trafic jams doesn't make sense to have a manual. And in the end, it is not a fun car or a sport car (unless the M5)
- Currently we have an A5 manual, a Mini Cooper S manual and the DB7 with a sequential box.
For the DB7, the sequential makes sense as the manual is very hard to drive (heavy clutch and pedals not really in line with driving position). So a sequential it is. I must say that as it is a GT car, it suits the car very well.
So in essence for our cars: A5 could be both, the mini must be a manual and the db7 must be an automatic (in this case sequential)
br,
Dirk
- Multiple 5 series with automatic gearbox. You know when spending each day an hour in some trafic jams doesn't make sense to have a manual. And in the end, it is not a fun car or a sport car (unless the M5)
- Currently we have an A5 manual, a Mini Cooper S manual and the DB7 with a sequential box.
For the DB7, the sequential makes sense as the manual is very hard to drive (heavy clutch and pedals not really in line with driving position). So a sequential it is. I must say that as it is a GT car, it suits the car very well.
So in essence for our cars: A5 could be both, the mini must be a manual and the db7 must be an automatic (in this case sequential)
br,
Dirk
Great combination of cars !
I love the A5, one of the few Audi i would consider these days.
I love the Mini, we had two.
I love the DB7 ... i'm dreaming of one
The DB7 can be automatic (sequential); i forgive you my friend
Bim
personally my choice would make you disown me :)
firstly i love tiptronic auto's. i'm not such a fan of standard auto's but the ability to change gear manually helps a lot on fast bends, roundabouts( i suppose they are fast bends) and all sorts of driving situations as a lower gear and a trailing throttle gives better grip than no throttle in top gear. i was driving V70 T5 Volvo's with auto boxes at work 15 years ago, using the 1-5 gears as if they were manual, but without the annoying clutch pedal.
i also really like SUV's as well, for their visibility, comfort and if you buy the right ones, their off road ability. however, as i no longer live in an area where off roading is easy i will probably stick with standard saloons or hatchbacks with auto/DSG gearboxes.
i still like driving a manual box every now and then, but through choice Bim would have to disown me( he wouldnt do that would he?)
G.
i also really like SUV's as well, for their visibility, comfort and if you buy the right ones, their off road ability. however, as i no longer live in an area where off roading is easy i will probably stick with standard saloons or hatchbacks with auto/DSG gearboxes.
i still like driving a manual box every now and then, but through choice Bim would have to disown me( he wouldnt do that would he?)
G.
Auto or ZF or DSG ...
.. are waaay more efficient than any manual. When i testdrove the new Clio RS i was stunned (well, a bit as i knew what was coming) on how fast the gearshifts were and the pick-up in the next gear .... but i missed the fun my RS provides me .. now if i could fit my RS with a double-clutch or a ZF .... hmmm .... .
Bim