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Unsung Genius - Tada-san's funbox last laugh
Yes it’s childish. I guess some of us never grow up. Constantly looking for every opportunity to have her sideways. To tease out her tail and keep her balanced there on the cliff edge of orgasm. Or tweak her helm to step out learily and catch like nervous cold tyres out of the pits in the dawn mist of your daydream favourite scene from LeMans. Looking for crossed up wiggles and giggles over brows or any kind of slip and slideways is addictive, devotional, obsessional - but always and preferably of opposite lockitude.
In a sanitised world of political correctness, speed awareness courses and 20mph limits the choices that make up the ’86 stand out as both insanity and genius. Deliberately choosing to limit the grip, is but one example. More keen to catch the first flight out to Driftsville than a pre-65 swb 911, if you blow the dust of your Autocar collection you will find that the ’86 matches stride for stride the performance of the legendary original M3 and the 70s 2.4 911. This is no coincidence. For a modern production car the petrolhead details of having such a focused Chief Engineer like Tada-san are obvious. The more you look the more you find. The view from the seat evokes the 911 or 458 due to the view of the wings. The headrests reverse to allow seat fit with helmets. The NASCAResque tacho; and its careful orientation (change up in normal driving at 12 oclock out of your peripheral vision). There is extra thread on the bolts on the suspension strut top mounts to take an aftermarket brace. The firewall is predrilled for gauge lines. The ground clearance is the same as an Auris for real world spoiler kerb clearance. A set of of four tyres fits in the boot with seats down (and a trolley jack). The straight ahead driving position. The height of the folded rear seat aperture allows a bicycle to go in without removing pedals; or two golf bags if you enjoy your walk ruined. A 13” Macbook slips in the glovebox. The powersocket cover can double as a plug for the engine noise port in the cabin footwell. The pedal weight and position for heel and toe is to die for. And the auto version could have been a dis-ah-ster, but Tada-san saved it by making for clutch lock up in manual mode so you can still throttle steer.
But you won’t read about these little bits of genius from most journalists’ coverage; most of whom couldn't discriminate between the sweetheart handling of the 86 versus the BRZ’s stretchy shopping trolley understeer, nor properly investigated the auto behaviour let alone touched on the subtleties above.
So, in a world of downsized turbo lag and misinformed greenwash I fear Tada-san’s Hachi-Roku will go down in history as the last hurrah of affordable driveability and involvement, with no-one noticing.
Shame
Tadaphile
Yet to spend some serious time with this one :)
But your ode to it is quite promising!
ahh the hachi-roku....I was toying with the idea of getting this car (used) or the new rolex day date.
whichever it is, the car will be a manual one of course. Lets see....Have to test drive them and decide between the 86 or the BRZ.
A perfect concept, but with a few flaws...
When the Toyota 86 debuted, I applauded Toyota for bringing this to market. This is exactly what the industry needed.
Then I drove one, a stock one, for nearly 1000 miles, 1500 kilometers, and I couldn't sing its praises anymore. Drove it in heavy Los Angeles traffic, in the city, on windy roads with WanteringPurist and other sports car fans, on a road trip, and so on.
Conceptually, the car was excellent. But its execution did have a few flaws. Perhaps, I got an unlucky one that slipped past quality control. The Limited Slip Differential clunked on any sharp turns, and clunked heavily in a U-turn. The acceleration needed careful and precise planning on the highway. The car didn't qualify as a momentum car because the car's handling couldn't keep a turn at speed. The Hyundai Genesis two door coupe drove like a better sorted car.
In the end, it brought exposure to a niche that was underserved. It sold reasonably well, but apparently the small number that was sold is such a small percentage of the entire product portfolio that Toyota doesn't care. It's also targeting a market that won't pay for the product; it's too expensive for the people asking for the product (it's kind of like the people who clamor for Ferrari to make more manual stick shifts; those clamor-ers aren't buyers), and for the people who can afford the product they go for something a little bit bigger, like the heavier Lexus IS and RC, the Infiniti Q60 coupe (which wins on looks alone), and the German coupes.
A BMW 2011 or 2012 -year 328i coupe with the 3.0 liter naturally aspirated engine is my choice in this segment. Great steering, good brakes, fantastic handling, and I'll take it in automatic or the comfort-oriented manual. Just gotta watch out for that electric water pump on that generation of 28i engine as they fail randomly and cause the entire engine to overheat. Did I mention it also doesn't have a coolant temperature gauge? Talk about flaws!
Interesting insight
Not sure what bias ratio was chosen but this torsen is 'tight' in full lock turns. Also the rear brakes activate to control the 'slipping' wheel if needed when this happens on looser surfaces. This can feel clunky but is normal.
Not sure what tyres you had but the stock grip is deliberately 'low' exposing the driver to the handling earlier. Sadly the knife edge breakaway of the Primacy's (especially when cold/winter) were not Tada's choice but a corporate greenwash one ("look our new sportscar has the same tyres as our Prius", along with production economy of scale), he preferring the equal grip but more progressive Yoko DB70s. The car is very responsive to different corner entry techniques, yielding understeer with a gentle turn rate up to immediate roll oversteer for the trail braker or those with more aggressive wheel work. I think the problem is 99% of potential buyers just don't get any of this and can buy a faster, easier to drive car for a lot less. It is certainly overpriced, fortunately the poor sales meant phat discounts were easy to come by. I think the problem Toyota has with it now is that everyone who wanted one now has one.
Nice choice with the 328, but that's a completely different beast, old school six and 400ish kg heavier for a start
Credit to BMW though, they design their cars to handle first and use the DSC second unlike some brands I could mention.
Velociphile
Not sure what tyres you had but the stock grip is deliberately 'low' exposing the driver to the handling earlier. Sadly the knife edge breakaway of the Primacy's (especially when cold/winter) were not Tada's choice but a corporate greenwash one ("look our new sportscar has the same tyres as our Prius", along with production economy of scale), he preferring the equal grip but more progressive Yoko DB70s. The car is very responsive to different corner entry techniques, yielding understeer with a gentle turn rate up to immediate roll oversteer for the trail braker or those with more aggressive wheel work. I think the problem is 99% of potential buyers just don't get any of this and can buy a faster, easier to drive car for a lot less. It is certainly overpriced, fortunately the poor sales meant phat discounts were easy to come by. I think the problem Toyota has with it now is that everyone who wanted one now has one.
Nice choice with the 328, but that's a completely different beast, old school six and 400ish kg heavier for a start
Credit to BMW though, they design their cars to handle first and use the DSC second unlike some brands I could mention.Velociphile
I definitely had one with the bad tires...
I had one with touring tires, Michelins if I recall correctly. I was rather surprised that the tires had such limited grip.
My normal car has Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires; so that's my baseline.
But the Toyota 86 is definitely a great concept and we need to applaud Tada for bringing the concept to light.
Now, where's a nice E92 328i... I've had a V8 powered BMW and a V8 powered AMG. But I still fondly want that 328i E92 Coupe. It oddly crosses my mind as fondly as a Lamborghini Huracan does.
My normal car has Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires; so that's my baseline.
But the Toyota 86 is definitely a great concept and we need to applaud Tada for bringing the concept to light.
Now, where's a nice E92 328i... I've had a V8 powered BMW and a V8 powered AMG. But I still fondly want that 328i E92 Coupe. It oddly crosses my mind as fondly as a Lamborghini Huracan does.
"limited grip"
Hi Patrick, If your baseline is Mich Pilot SS then I understand. 8-) That is a whopping amount of stick.
I'm less fussed about that, the thing I am always looking for is progression. The Primacys just don't seem to have that in the damp and cold UK especially. I like less outright grip though for more achievable smiles. Some of the greatest fun I've had was a BMW 540 V8 (manual!) running on Mud and snow tyres in the summer. Low grip, super progressive, lower speed overall.
I'm a Huracan fan too (2wd)
Velo
I'm less fussed about that, the thing I am always looking for is progression. The Primacys just don't seem to have that in the damp and cold UK especially. I like less outright grip though for more achievable smiles. Some of the greatest fun I've had was a BMW 540 V8 (manual!) running on Mud and snow tyres in the summer. Low grip, super progressive, lower speed overall.
I'm a Huracan fan too (2wd)
Velo
E39 BMW?
540 V8 BMW? I personally really enjoyed the way the E39 generation of BMW 5er vehicles drove. They were a great balance of comfort and sportiness, and a bit more on the sporty side.
I had an E60 BMW 545i, a vehicle that was another good balance of comfort and sportiness, with a little bit greater comfort emphasis compared to the E39. The E60 545i I drove had a myraid of comfort oriented features such as Active Steering (variable steering ratio) and Dynamic Drive (active hydraulic roll bar suspension) that increased the capability of the car's handling but numbed out some of the feel - it took me over a month to get used to it and about six months of driving to start loving it. I consider the E39 and the E60 the best BMW 5ers. I have just spent some time driving the latest 540i (the brand new model) which is an I6 engine - seems promising.
I've had much more experience in the AWD Huracan, probably around 20 times the mileage in the AWD version than the RWD version. I'd love to get some more seat time in the Huracan, but the blind spot, smallest-in-its-class trunk, and the smallest-in-its class cabin is annoying. Otherwise, I imagine it to be the most reliable and easy to drive of the twocompetitors (Ferrari 458/488 and McLaren 650S/720S). McLaren owners tell me that the McLaren is shockingly smooth and easy to drive once you get used to it. The biggest problem with the Huracan is the blind spot... You simply cannot execute an emergency lane change in the Huracan because you can't see what's in the other lane. I'm told that the McLaren coupes have a much more manageable blind spot, so I'm curious about the McLaren now.
What are your thoughts about the McLaren 12C/650S? I saw the 720S at Quail and was mightily impressed!
Funny the cars we are talking about in the same thread as GT86.....
2-10x the price and 1.5 - 3.5x the power.....
Patrick, I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. You're lucky to have the problem. At these levels I think it is hairsplitting differences as to whatever floats your boat. I am very driven by the driving aesthetics not metrics, so I will have to give the McL a low score for its ongoing lacklustre exhaust note - I could not live with it - we all hated it when working on 12C and a better sounding exhaust was not chosen at sign off; though it has improved. It's such a fundamental part of the experience when driving. For example why I have Zx1000R (screaming raspy hair tingling sound) not a Fireblade (vaccum cleaner).
Life is too short to compromise, and I'm biased towards the lovely people holding the torch at Sant'Agata, who I dearly miss, (blub blub) so LP580-2 all the way for Velociphile, not that I could afford to squeeze that in the garage past MrsV.
but we'd probably all be better off in a NSX.... hehehe
Patrick, I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. You're lucky to have the problem. At these levels I think it is hairsplitting differences as to whatever floats your boat. I am very driven by the driving aesthetics not metrics, so I will have to give the McL a low score for its ongoing lacklustre exhaust note - I could not live with it - we all hated it when working on 12C and a better sounding exhaust was not chosen at sign off; though it has improved. It's such a fundamental part of the experience when driving. For example why I have Zx1000R (screaming raspy hair tingling sound) not a Fireblade (vaccum cleaner).
Life is too short to compromise, and I'm biased towards the lovely people holding the torch at Sant'Agata, who I dearly miss, (blub blub) so LP580-2 all the way for Velociphile, not that I could afford to squeeze that in the garage past MrsV.
but we'd probably all be better off in a NSX.... hehehe
Good to know about the McLaren...
I'll have to pay attention to that. It's a flat crank V8 built by Ricardo, it shouldn't sound too bad. There's also a Sport Exhaust optional extra.
I recall the Aston Martin V12 Vantage S, it had an amazing sound and amazing looks. Unfortunately not much else. Wasn't great at handling in the corners, wasn't comfortable, wasn't exceptionally smooth riding, but you were actively engaged to the driving experience due to the sound. I admittedly did make an offer to lease one for two years.
The biggest fault with the Huracan I find is the blind spot when changing lanes. Visibility to the sides and the rear is just too limited for me to drive confidently and in safety. I've driven the AWD Huracan dozens of times, and while I was always enthralled by the experience, I was always a little wary and worried about the blind spots. Never got used to it neither. I'd have to try it again. But the Huracan is my favorite of the three mid-engined vehicles. Driving the Huracan in Sport Mode with the sport exhaust and hearing the little crackles in the exhaust when you lift off... Just bliss!
"Flat crank V8....." "...shouldn't sound bad"
Well it may have been designed, engineered and developed by the unsung Ricardo, but the customer, MCL, still chose the sound.
Don't let the Huracan's so called blindspot put you off. Spread the mirrors wider than usual.
Don't let the Huracan's so called blindspot put you off. Spread the mirrors wider than usual.