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Breguet Speculation Thread: When Will Breguet Update the Marine 5817?
Hi everyone, first post for me.
I've been looking at a few watches to cap my modest collection (which is a JLC MUT Moon for dress and a DateJust II for daily wear) and I wanted a watch that was dressy yet had good water resistance, a nice power reserve (above 60hr), I need a date function, and I am drawn to the look of blue hands on a watch... So, a Marine 5817 ticks off all my boxes!
However, I'm also seeing that Breguet uses an old F Piguet movement which requires frequent $1000 services (they recommend 3 years, 5 may be real-world).
Rolex just went to 10 years for their service interval and their new 3255 calibre (the 32xx will show up in many of their models eventually) is anti-magnetic to at least 1000 gauss, 70hr power reserve, has improved shock protection and a parachrom mainspring that is much, much more shock resistant than a typical spring. Also, it has improved accuracy to +2/-2 seconds...
Now, you may be saying to yourself that Breguet has been innovating as well and has a number of patents over the last 15 years to its credit. They have been working with silicon springs and various interesting things.
But, that doesn't seem to have come to the Marine 5817, which seems to be at least 15 years old in its current form (correct me if I'm wrong). And you might say, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but clearly some increased durability, anti-magnetism, increased service intervals, etc. would be welcome.
So, my question is If/When Breguet will update the 5817? And what form will that take? And how do I tell Marc Hayek to get to it and don't forget the 5817!
P.S. Thanks to jrwong23 and others for your great 5817 pictures for getting me interested in Breguet!
This message has been edited by Spangles on 2015-07-07 19:55:23
I've been looking at a few watches to cap my modest collection (which is a JLC MUT Moon for dress and a DateJust II for daily wear) and I wanted a watch that was dressy yet had good water resistance, a nice power reserve (above 60hr), I need a date function, and I am drawn to the look of blue hands on a watch... So, a Marine 5817 ticks off all my boxes!
However, I'm also seeing that Breguet uses an old F Piguet movement which requires frequent $1000 services (they recommend 3 years, 5 may be real-world).
Rolex just went to 10 years for their service interval and their new 3255 calibre (the 32xx will show up in many of their models eventually) is anti-magnetic to at least 1000 gauss, 70hr power reserve, has improved shock protection and a parachrom mainspring that is much, much more shock resistant than a typical spring. Also, it has improved accuracy to +2/-2 seconds...
Now, you may be saying to yourself that Breguet has been innovating as well and has a number of patents over the last 15 years to its credit. They have been working with silicon springs and various interesting things.
But, that doesn't seem to have come to the Marine 5817, which seems to be at least 15 years old in its current form (correct me if I'm wrong). And you might say, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but clearly some increased durability, anti-magnetism, increased service intervals, etc. would be welcome.
So, my question is If/When Breguet will update the 5817? And what form will that take? And how do I tell Marc Hayek to get to it and don't forget the 5817!
P.S. Thanks to jrwong23 and others for your great 5817 pictures for getting me interested in Breguet!
This message has been edited by Spangles on 2015-07-07 19:55:23
What basis do we have to speculate?
IF the Marine 5817 is a successful watch (which I assume it is given the time it is in the catalogue and all the versions created within this collection) then even this does not necessarily help pondering: Breguet might chose to keep it as it is - why change a winning team?
On the other hand, I could imagine some improvements under the hood. With Blancpain as well as Breguet the F. Piguet base movement you already mentioned has recently undergone some modifications, including a freesprung hairspring in combination with a silicon escapement. Here is an image of the Blancpain version:
This is a straightforward advancement which could see readily introduced into the Marine as well. This would address a lot of the wishes you voiced.
Cheers,
Magnus
Thanks!
Hi there, yes, that would be a very interesting improvement!
Do you know around what year the silicon spring was introduced into the F Piguet movement for Blancpain?
Also, how did the silicon spring change the Blancpain's performance (power reserve, accuracy, etc.)?
Do you know around what year the silicon spring was introduced into the F Piguet movement for Blancpain?
Also, how did the silicon spring change the Blancpain's performance (power reserve, accuracy, etc.)?
p.s.
Also, I wrote the Breguet boutique in NYC and they said they will ask about the silicon mainspring for the 5817, as it should be introduced into the whole Breguet line eventually.
Well, that would only be consequential, consistent and good news for watch lovers! Thanks [nt]
No message body
Here's the answer I got!
I'm not sure I understand it completely, please help!
Dear Mr. Spangles,
Thank you for your patience.
We have an answer from Switzerland saying that this model is in transition of changing parts into silicon. There will some of them in the market still are not silicon. Model's detail stating with annular balance is non-Silicon, if it is a Breguet balance, that will be silicon.
That is the answer given from Switzerland.
Sometime visually we can point out the differences
I hope this answer will help your decision in choosing 5817model.
Best regards,
Dear Mr. Spangles,
Thank you for your patience.
We have an answer from Switzerland saying that this model is in transition of changing parts into silicon. There will some of them in the market still are not silicon. Model's detail stating with annular balance is non-Silicon, if it is a Breguet balance, that will be silicon.
That is the answer given from Switzerland.
Sometime visually we can point out the differences
I hope this answer will help your decision in choosing 5817model.
Best regards,
Update: Some follow up answers from Breguet
I had a reply on some follow up questions from Breguet.
Here they are, with the answers from Breguet in blue!
1. Does the Breguet Boutique have a 5817 with silicon parts or would it need to be ordered?
a. If the client has a newer watch it is a Breguet balance, it is Silicon. If it’s an older timepiece it is an annular balance, it’s a classic hairspring.
2. Are there any changes in power reserve, recommended service interval, accuracy, or any other changes in the performance of a 5817 with silicon parts?
a. The power reserve stays the same since the barrels and the watch frequency remain the same, but the tolerances are much better with Silicon (from 0 +12 to -1 +5sec/day with Silicon). The recommended service frequency is still the same as the previous version because the rest of the movement hasn’t changed, so all those parts still need a change of oil. In this calibre we don’t have a Silicon escapement so there is oil there too.
3. I assume there is greater anti-magnetic properties and possible greater resistance to shock. a. The big advantage is, as you know, to be totally insensible to magnetism, but the Silicon does not increase its resistance to shock.
Okay, folks, I hope that's informative! I feel like the Breguet Marine 5817 would be very nice. It's $15,900 with a rubber strap and $18k+ with a new bracelet (the old bracelet, which looked like two thinner half bracelets put together) has been discontinued
Here they are, with the answers from Breguet in blue!
1. Does the Breguet Boutique have a 5817 with silicon parts or would it need to be ordered?
a. If the client has a newer watch it is a Breguet balance, it is Silicon. If it’s an older timepiece it is an annular balance, it’s a classic hairspring.
2. Are there any changes in power reserve, recommended service interval, accuracy, or any other changes in the performance of a 5817 with silicon parts?
a. The power reserve stays the same since the barrels and the watch frequency remain the same, but the tolerances are much better with Silicon (from 0 +12 to -1 +5sec/day with Silicon). The recommended service frequency is still the same as the previous version because the rest of the movement hasn’t changed, so all those parts still need a change of oil. In this calibre we don’t have a Silicon escapement so there is oil there too.
3. I assume there is greater anti-magnetic properties and possible greater resistance to shock. a. The big advantage is, as you know, to be totally insensible to magnetism, but the Silicon does not increase its resistance to shock.
Okay, folks, I hope that's informative! I feel like the Breguet Marine 5817 would be very nice. It's $15,900 with a rubber strap and $18k+ with a new bracelet (the old bracelet, which looked like two thinner half bracelets put together) has been discontinued