Chicagoland Chuck Maddox
21
Quoted out of context? Yes, but it's pretty unavoidable...
Quoted slightly out of context? Well, I really didn't mean . . . (sigh) May 15, 2007,03:12 AM By: SamJH (registered) Chuck's views about the 50th anniversary edition -- and my own misgivings -- are now confirmed by the extraordinarily high MSRP set by Omega. Note I said "set prices" not "charged prices". There is a apparently some history by Omega of having very high MSRPs on limited edition watches, then they or their dealers having to dump them on the gray market. For instance, the Museum Collection watches are all still available from Omega, each model from 2001 to 2006, and are regularly seen sold new in box without papers. A friend of mine bought an officer's chronograph (Series Four, I think) for about 20% of the MSRP -- and it was one of 5 or 6 offered. i am not signed up for a 50th Speedy, or a new DeVille Hour Vision for that matter either (MSRP for stainless steel is also in excess of $9,000 as I recall). I was very interested in both watches -- but not at those prices. As an aside, Omega is trying a different strategy with the Museum Collection with the Series Seven Marine. Rather than the 1900 to 1950 pieces for Series Two through Six (and 4,938 pieces for Series One), Series Seven is being produced in 137 pieces, and I expect at an extraordinary price (has anyone seen a MSRP? I've been afraid to ask). I won't say Chuck misquoted me -- he didn't. But I admit to and will state that I didn't quote the entire thread or other threads which occured on another Omega forum. So what I posted's "context" is definately debatable. I mainly stuck with why I [and seemingly quite a few other folks] were disappointed with Omega's 50th Anniversary Speedmaster strategy. I wrote the words he pasted in. How to explain . . . I haven't gone back and re-read the thread, so my memory is likely imperfect, but my state of mind at the time was something like this. There had been a series of posts complaining that Omega had an unsuccessful showing at Basel, and I was frustrated with the comments to that effect. Omega had introduced a number of items, some in advance of Basel admittedly, New Product: What was done: When Announced: General Reaction: Speedmaster Reduced Revised dials, improved W/R late 2006 Positive Speedmaster Day Revised Dials, 100m W/R, COSC late 2006 Positive Revised SeMPC Revised Dial, modest price increase late 2006 Relief it wasn't cancelled, Positive Seamaster NZL-32 New Model, c.33xx variant late 2006 Positive BA 1957 Revised enamel & 1957 dial 4 Jan 2007 outrage @ putting 1957 on dial, enamel isn't very tool watch is it? Mostly negative. Hour Vision New movement, quasi-Inhouse 23 Jan 2007 Positive mainly, some are guarded. Marine 135 LE Museum Homage piece to original Marine Positive 50th Aniversary Patch Patch Dial, LE numbering, [Price?] late March 2007 Disappointment, underwhelmed 50th Anniversary c.3210 "castrated" c.3313 LE numbering, Shocking pricing [if accurate] late March 2007 Disappointment My apologies in advance for those models I've forgotten to include. but the first large public exposure was primarily at Basel. Omega seems to make most of their announcements with introductions other than at Basel, when they believe they can command the horological world's undivided attention. I challeged others to point out who did better at Basel. Chuck wasn't one of those making the comments, although he effectively and skillfully commented on Omega's Basel showing. I'm not 100% sure if my comments were in the same post, same thread or a different thread, but I believe I stated that Omega largely did their Basel showing in themselves by pre-announcing nearly everything in their cache ahead of time. It's not much different than a Magician posting in the program that : I'm goingo to do the Bunny in the hat bit followed by the turn the wand into a flower arrangement, saw my assistant in half, do the sword in the coffin bit, etc. A more modern example would be to think of how effective Steve Jobs keynote's would be if he leaked an outline to his talking points the week before a MacWorld San Francisco address. I had, in the same state of mild irritation, expressed essentially the alternate view that 50th Speedy wasn't that bad and noted the mostly negative comments. And I challenged readers to suggest better alternatives, other than another 1861 in new shoes or a reintroduction of the 321. Chuck rather ably took up that challenge . . . . And the alternatives I posted on TZ were pretty much the same as I reposted [excerpted] here. I know that we had also bandied about the possibility of a "straight-lugged" aniversary edition and/or a Titanium cased edition too. Irritation dissipated today, the Speedy 50th edition -- both the new movement and the "patch" version - now leave me completely cold. And I have more reason than most to want a 50th and an HourVision with Calibre 8500. I won these items in a TZ contest, rather than purchased them. While a 50th Speedy of some stripe would be a nice addition, I'll be content with the Snoopy. And truth be told, I wear my hat with Omega on front more often than this one. What passionate Speedmaster fans received was essentially a failure of the imagination [a stripped c.3313 and a busy dial -- whoopie.]. As a result what we've seen [expressed] here and in the other on-line Omega Communities, is the disappointment of what could have been... In essance it was a tailor made opportunity for Omega to sell a bunch of watches, and it seems like it has been squandered. -- Chuck
No, you're quite right, Sam... It absolutely was quoted out of context. As there was no easy way for me to quote the entire thread or threads over at TZ in context here, at least not feasably.
Well, I will be even-handed enough to say that if the "Patch" flavor of the 50th Anniversary edition includes the rather cool box and tool set, the $1,000 MSRP premium isn't entirely out of line. That box and those tools are probably not inexpensive. But I still remain squarely in the group of people who are disappointed that Omega didn't do more on the "affordable" 50th Aniversary model.
And some dealers offer substansial discounts on MSRP too. And the higher the MSRP, the more even a 5% discount is worth pursuing.
20% of the MSRP or 20% off of the MSRP Sam? Two very different things.
I don't know I'll ever be interested in the 50th [patch] Speedmaster even at regular MSRP price, even at a discounted MSRP price. I suppose if it came with the box and tool set I might be able to justify the purchase, but the Patch model doesn't strike a resonant chord with me. But that's just me. My "chords" doesn't mean it isn't the right watch for some other potential customer.
And this is one of the oddest of the more recent Omega announcements (which is the next topic you address below, Sam] in that the venue that Omega chose to announce this product was buried in the lot's of the Omegamania Antiquorium listing... In case anyone missed it, here's a link to the listing:
This unique piece was created especially for the Omegamania sale and is based on the famous Omega "Marine" of the 1930's. The 1932 "Marine" will also be produced with a pink gold outer case and white inner case, as watch No. 7 in the "Museum Collection" in a limited series of 135 pieces.
I don't misquote people.
True.
Just so it's clear, I created a table showing how Omega had either introduced or leaked nearly every last "new" item shown at Basel [Apologies, but the table is much prettier over on TZ...]:
The only completely new watch shown at Basel, i.e. one that hadn't previously been announced or leaked, was the gold Planet Ocean.
Everything on the table above the Hour Vision had been seen on Authorized Dealer's shelves prior to Basel. The Hour Vision, Marine and the 50th's had only been seen either at Press showings, Omegamania or on-line except for the aforementioned Gold Planet Ocean.
They did this year anyway. In the past, Omega has waited until Basel or the immediate ramp up before Basel to announce their new offereings. The PO and PO Chrono's showed up at Basel, the Gemini 4 40th LE was leaked the week of Basel, etc.
You did. If I remember correctly I stated that for the most part nearly everyone had a disappointing Basel showing, I excepted Longines, who showed some very attractive [IMO] pieces:
Nice of you to say so Sam.
Again, it's nice of you to say so, Sam.
The patch I might be able to warm to if the price is right and the nifty box and tool set comes with it. The "castrated" c.3313 models? I just really don't know what Omega is thinking, stripping out the rotor and auto-winding bits out of a c.3313 and charging twice as much as a BA or BA 1957. That's just goofy.
I'll sum up with the two concluding paragraphs within that section of the post I quoted from [I've added the emphasis]:
What the passionate Speedmaster community here and on the other Omega discussion boards were thirsting for from Omega was something imaginative, exciting and worthy of the significance of the 50th anniversary of one of a select few watches [Movado Museum, IWC "Type", Rolex Sub and GMT] in continous production for such a long time, largely unchanged.
50th anniversary speedmaster question
Roberto.....as i understand it.....
Combined reply [and a bit of a disagreement]...
