The Genealogical tree of the Ulra Thin movements.

Apr 23, 2012,04:33 AM
 



Making an ultra thin movement is much more difficult than you can think.

There is a very tough compromise to find the perfect ratio between the thinness, and the reliability, the solidity of the parts composing the movement.

LeCoultre, then Jaeger-Lecoultre developped a true speciality and mastery in ultra thin movements, since 1907, which were manual but also automatic.

Here, you will find a list of these movements, which are true piece of art, and, sometimes, offered more than simply the Hour and the Minutes, but some prestigious complications, like a Minute Repeater.

I/ Manual movements:

Cal 145 from 1907.... 1, 38 mm high!





Cal 18 SMV, circa 1920, Minute Repeater, AND Ultra Thin. Even if I don't have the height of this movement, I have seen in the real life, and I can vouch for its thinness:





Cal 803, 1953.... 1, 64 mm high.





Cal 818, 1959: 2, 94 mm high.





Cal 849, 1994: 1, 85 mm high.



II/ Automatic movements:

Cal 920, from 1967: 2, 45 mm high, made by Jaeger-Lecoultre, used by Audemars Piguet and Vacheron Constantin, for example.





Cal 896, from 2008: 3, 98 mm high, but does it have still to be considered as Ultra Thin?



Who else is able to offer such a diversity?

Best,

Nicolas

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Great beginning....

 
 By: watchme : April 23rd, 2012-05:52
It'd be great to see how many of the JLC UT movements were supplied to PP, since PP didn't make a movement before 1933, and were still VERY reliant on JLC's expertise in this areas right through the late '80s. Thanks for the post. -Dean

The JLC developed 920 was used by PP

 
 By: dreamer8 : April 23rd, 2012-20:05
for the Nautilus ( PP 28-255 ) when it debuted in 1970 for ten years before it was replaced by the PP 335 SC. AP bought the rights to the movement and is still used in the AP RO 15202 . Corrections welcomed as I am going by memory. Cheers,dreamer This mes... 

W!hat I wondered, while preparing this post, is to know that

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-09:52
I didn't forget a few others... Not evolutions, but different ones. As for the JLC UT movements housed in other brands watches... JLC is pretty discrete on that point. And we have to compare what the others offer to have an element of answer... Best, Nico... 

Thanks Nicolas, and a question...

 
 By: Tick Talk : April 23rd, 2012-06:29
I'm very interested in learning more about the calibers 803 and 920. As mentioned, they were assigned to other manufactures but your pictures show them decorated with JLC markings. Were they used by JLC? If yes, in what models? This message has been edite... 

Hi, Tick-Talk...

 
 By: watchme : April 24th, 2012-05:54
The 803 was funded by AP & VC and both brands debuted "The thinnest movement" in the year it was released (1953?). Both brands are using it today, although I believe AP owns the rights to it (part of the purchase agreement of Richemont buying AP's sha... 

No they weren't used by JLC for their watches.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-09:54
They were delivered to AP and VC in parts, ready to be assembled. Best, Nicolas

Still seeking answers...

 
 By: Tick Talk : April 24th, 2012-12:09
I'm still seeking an explanation for the two movement photos of the 803 and 920 marked as Jaeger-LeCoultre! Obviously they did not appear inside another manufacture's case, so the question remains if these movements were for display/promotion and are uniq... 

No way. They were not used in JLC watches.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-12:29
The JLC signature on these movements is only for promotional purposes. I had this point officially confirmed by JLC. Best, Nicolas

How about a 0.90mm ultrathin

 
 By: Tick Talk : April 25th, 2012-10:01
Thanks so much for clearing up that question. The JLC promotional photos are great as a starting point for the story of these wonderful movements. Now, how about this beauty...1931 V&C ultrathin pocket watch with a movement thickness of only 0.90mm. Even ...  

Pure, clean, amazing!

 
 By: amanico : April 25th, 2012-10:07

Astounding.

 
 By: MichaelC : April 23rd, 2012-06:49
How these movements can be made so thin is really incredible. Great post Nicolas.

Impressive, too.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-10:00
These UT movements are a real challenge, and, in my opinion, to be considered in any nice collection. Best, my friend. Nicolas

Interesting how the movements have gotten thicker

 
 By: aaronm : April 23rd, 2012-07:07
Rather then thinner over the years. I'm guessing some of that has to do with the demands of the wrist, since you can't have a 3mm watch, no reason to have a 1.3mm movement. And I might have to disagree about the 896, nearly 4mm does not qualify as ultra-t... 

To be clear, what I meant is that I highly doubted that the 895 could

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-10:04
Be considered as a UT movement. Thin yes, Ultra Thin, certainly not. Ultra Thin movements are quite demanding to make, which may explain the easy way of thicker ones... Best, Nicolas

I love this topic, Nicolas!

 
 By: respo : April 23rd, 2012-08:31
JLC excels at these ultra thin movements, no? Lovely to see them. Dean already mentioned it, but I am not sure I have ever seen the cal. 920 marked as a JLC movement. Very interesting. Is there more information on this? What is also amazing is not only th... 

Well, I tried to demonstrate that UT movements are a Tradition, at JLC.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-10:14
As for the 920, please look at my answer and at Watchme answer ( above ), all is here. As for the size, yes, I would like to see their diameter increase, but I wonder if would be compatible with a certain reliability. I always have a lack of confidence wi... 

To answer to your question...

 
 By: foversta : April 23rd, 2012-12:23
maybe Piaget? Thanks a lot for the wrap-up, glad to see a pic of the 920 and of the MR. Fx

Beautiful pics of wonderful movements ...

 
 By: nilomis : April 23rd, 2012-13:10
Nicolas Thanks for the post. You goto make a friend of mine a happy person (I forwarded the link to him). He loves ultra thin watches. Cheers Nilo

There is some serious reasons behind this love, IMO.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-10:28
In terms of conception and finish... Best, my friend. Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2012-04-24 10:28:51

Thank you Nicolas...

 
 By: Sandgroper : April 23rd, 2012-19:21
on my trip back from Paris in January a had the pleasure of visiting AP service centre in Singapore where Mr Michael Bellamy (GM) very kindly showed and explained to me, under microscope the cal.920 which is housed in the AP RO Jumbo, what a beautifully f... 

LeCoultre, and Jaeger-LeCoultre was considered as THE watchmaker's watchmakers.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-10:31
Yes, Francois, you get it right, the 920 was housed in the RO jumbo Ref 5402 and the Nautilus Ref 3700.. As for the place of JLC among the best manufacutres, for me, it is one of the highest, horologically speaking. Best, my down under friend. Nicolas

Correction, I should have written...

 
 By: Sandgroper : April 23rd, 2012-22:16
that the caliber I was shown by Mr Michael Bellamy at Audemars Piguet in Singapore is the caliber AP2121 which is housed in the RO Jumbo, it does derive from the magnificent Cal.920 from JLC of course, the same Cal.920 revisited by Patek in the Nautilus 3... 

Excellent post

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : April 24th, 2012-10:15
I saved it to my hard drive for future contests Best Damjan

Aaah, is this your secret? ;) [nt]

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-10:27
No message body

Thank you for a great post, Nicolas!

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : April 24th, 2012-12:43
A very interesting topic! A theme I hope to start to explore one day... Best, my friend Blomman

For sure Blomman, this is a very tempting thema.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-13:00
And not too difficult to achieve! Best, Nicolas

not too difficult to achieve....

 
 By: Clavi : April 25th, 2012-05:52
...unless you want to include the mother of ultrathins, i.e. the calibre 145 (rumour has it that less than 400 were produced, and most of them are to be found under the Cartier and Vacheron&Constantin names) Thank you for the great pictures of these movem...  

Maybe nicer but not tougher

 
 By: Clavi : April 25th, 2012-07:33
I think there were more Thin MR produced than plain utrathin 145.... When looking at the famous auction houses archives I can see there were many thin 18 SMV MRs or its derivatives sold (again think Cartier, Ekegren, and mostly Patek / Tiffany). ....not t... 

Less is more

 
 By: DaMctosh : April 24th, 2012-17:55
And these ultra thins are great examples. Would live to see and hear the MR. Too bad the 803 did not end up in a JLC. Thanks Nico for this (and reminding me I still don't have a MUT!)

Tempting thema, indeed.

 
 By: amanico : April 24th, 2012-22:16
At least a pocket watch and a wristwatch housing an UT movement...That would be a great pair to own! The MR is outstanding to hear. The good thing is that the Manufacture repaired all the calibers you can see at the Heritage Gallery, or at least a majorit... 

Great post

 
 By: Marv : April 26th, 2012-15:27
Thank you Nicolas for this special focus on a collection of movements that deserve to be highlighted. The Minute Repeater Ultrathin movement is fascinating and your photos are great ... as always. Best

I realized I didn't write too much on the UT movements.

 
 By: amanico : April 26th, 2012-22:38
And when I saw them at the Heritage Gallery, I couldn't resist. Best, my friend, and thanks for your kind words! Nicolas....  

love these sexy ultra thin ladies...

 
 By: FanFrancisco : April 27th, 2012-08:00
... especially i fall in love with cal. 18 SMV at first sight.... do you have the dial pic, Nico? stefan

Here you are.

 
 By: amanico : April 27th, 2012-08:09
Dial side, as requested: Best, Nicolas...  

ha, only this one....

 
 By: FanFrancisco : April 27th, 2012-08:15
... the dial must be have disappeared along ago? stefan

You want more?

 
 By: amanico : April 27th, 2012-08:48
Ok, I thought dial side, while you wanted a picture of the dial... So, here you are again:...