Independent accreditation and certification

How important is independent certification of a Swiss watch to you, and would it address your concerns about “Swiss Made” and the quality (in its broadest sense) of the final timepiece?

I thought about this issue when I visited the Fleurier Quality Foundation (FQF). [CLICK HERE to see more detail about the FQF testing process including video.] The FQF is designed to independently assess the quality of movement finish, the robustness of the construction of the watch, the chronometric performance of the movement (basically COSC) as well as the cased up watch on the wrist (the Fleuritest) and that the watches are manufactured in Switzerland.

Does this approach reassure you as a collector? As a member of the general buying public? Does independent testing produce any appreciable improvements in the final (certified) timepiece? Should there be independent visits to watch manufactures to directly assess their production processes? [This would likely require assessors from within the industry and there would be confidentiality issues.] Is it worth the effort or should we just let the industry self regulate (and the PR machines churn out their advertising)? How independent does the testing authority have to be and who should pay for the process?

Interested in your thoughts from any angle.

Andrew

There's no place like HoMe!

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Patek Philippe Seal vs the Independent accreditation

By: MervC : February 7th, 2013-00:45

As much as I like the claim that the 'PP Seal' is more rigorous and of a higher standard than the Geneva Seal, or the Qualite Fleurier Standard, I fell that having a independent / 3rd party test is better and most importantly fairer . However, I don't thi...

Today's certifications are usually not satisfactory (marketing purposes)

By: Mark in Paris : February 7th, 2013-01:26

Hi Andrew, First, I'd like to mention that these certifications (indpendant or not) are not a major creteria for me. I know the watch I'm looking out, I study them and I know if they are of high quality standard or not, enough to make a selection. But, I ...

Well said Mark....+1+1+1

By: moc : February 7th, 2013-03:15

Smoke in the eyes my friend...I am ,like you,my own certificate,and that suits me fine and its more than enough.... Mo

+2...

By: pplater : February 7th, 2013-03:25

There are as many 'certifications', 'seals', 'hallmarks' and 'brands' as there are lemmings. An Observatory certificate is a bit of fun; other than that, Mark and Mo are on the money. Cheers, pplater.

It is about passion...

By: dedestexhes : February 7th, 2013-04:22

I agree with your remarks. But even if there is an independent organism that would do test or judge on a specific seal...would it change my mind? We would perhaps all drive the same car if we would follow results from crash tests, breakdown figures. In re...

Once again, the Watch Snob has the answer

By: Zhege : February 7th, 2013-06:06

Here's what he had to say about it recently (edited for brevity and forum rules) I am looking at several different watches in the $8-$10K retail range. One ... model has the features that I want. Yet for virtually the same price, but with less features, t...

Certificate tests should not be designed to allow passage.

By: mkvc : February 7th, 2013-10:07

As far as I can tell, all existing certification tests are designed to allow a favored group of watches to pass. When the Poincon de Geneve decided that wire springs would be prohibited, you had better believe that first they checked to be sure their clie...

Pushing improvement

By: AndrewD : February 7th, 2013-17:56

Perhaps a good certification process might actually push improvements in the final product? What if COSC said that from 2015 they were going to decrease their tolerances to -1 to +3 seconds per day? Would that lead to a better, more robust, more accurate ...

The ISO 6425 printed on my Certina diver is a superfluous detail

By: mkt33 : February 7th, 2013-10:40

but as a "diver's watch" I'm glad that it conforms to and tested to pass an agreed upon international standard. I am sure that it is part of Certina's marketing str ategy for this wa tch and I bet there are a lot of other "diving watches" that cannot meet...

Bear in mind these test are "as at", which means that x months into ownership,.........

By: Hororgasm : February 7th, 2013-10:47

It has no residual value. If you go diving, say 6 months after you have bought the watch, and you found water seepage, ISO is not "accountable".Certina might repair or offer a new watch to you, if it is within the warranty period. Best, Horo

yes, I understand. What is important to me is that when Certina

By: mkt33 : February 7th, 2013-11:13

designed the watch, the engineers incorporated elements which allowed the Action Diver to pass ISO 6425. Plus the deepest I know I will go is to the bottom of the 12 feet pool at the local Y :-) Cheers, Mike

12 feet pool? That's adult pool man, I stay at the toddler side, just to be safe!! :)- [nt]

By: Hororgasm : February 7th, 2013-11:19

I rather no accredition or industry wide level accredition, not bullshit like PP seal

By: Hororgasm : February 7th, 2013-11:10

COSC is pure commercial, easily obtainable and fairly low standards...how many standard mechanized issued Rolex Submariner movements need to be certified?? PP seal is but a self aggrandizement exercise and branding given to in house QC...one industry insi...

It is certainly akin to ...

By: AndrewD : February 7th, 2013-18:06

... putting the Big Bad Wolf in charge of the children's nursery and the piggery. So I see that you agree with external, independent accreditation of a facility. For this to work we have to have defined standards that the facility must be audited against....

Horo, as always...

By: elliot55 : February 10th, 2013-07:50

... you are spot effing on! - Scott

its not something that concerns me one bit.

By: G99 : February 7th, 2013-11:10

Having been to the Fleurier Quality Foundation I was impressed by the rigorous nature

By: Mitch K : February 7th, 2013-18:45

of their testing protocol. It is as good as it gets. The COSC certification only looks at a selected number of movements prior to encasement and certainly in that process the accuracy of the movement can be affected. The QF testing does assess each certif...

The FQF is on the right track ...

By: AndrewD : February 9th, 2013-04:11

Thanks for your comments, Mitch. I like the concept of the FQF and the fact that it covers issues like performance on the wrist (Fleuritest), robustness and build quality (Chronofiable test), parts finishing and addresses the Swiss Made fallacy. But of co...