Horological Meandering

Another attack of Horofatiguecitis

A PT Haldimann H1 ( and I so love this central tourbi) closed at HKD644K (HKD520 without) including premium today at Sotheby HK. I participated in that auction while slurping on a coke during lunch so the numbers are actual. This is not about a price discussion or anything that is not condoned here but with a new price of CHF160K+ (HKD1.35+mio) export, one wonders... at least I wonder... if this madness sometimes needs some rationalization to set in sooner rather than later.

It's also not about a Haldimann per se but a very large majority of watches in general, save Pateks, from what we are seeing at auctions. I love the H1 but I think of what it hammered for and what a new one costs and I think... ok... if I have to ask, I can't afford it. The buyer I think got it at a good price but the seller assuming he bought it new? Maybe it was a fire sale? Maybe it is really reflective of the loss on new watches in general?

And with the current market turmoil which even going to cash gives perhaps only very temporary solace... sigh.. I also saw a really good condition, under warranty, 5712 yesterday for a fair price at a level much more within my means and even though I have always liked it, I start to think if I should let the madness continue... sigh...my horofatigue I thought was starting to mend...I'm not...I think I should really seriously consider another property in the near term...gotta go see my golf coach now.... have a good evening all.

💰1 Marketplace Listings for Haldimann›

I wouldn't presume the seller took a bath . . .

By: Dr No : October 6th, 2011-09:13

. . . based on the list price, Arthur, because the discounting that prevails at the mass market level can be found at the stratospheric level, too . . .

Gonna try to fit this

By: ArthurSG : October 6th, 2011-19:06

for my avatar and give lovely Ms Forlani a break YOU WANT ME TO PAY WHAT?!!!!!!!!!...

your case of horofatigue has almost reach Greek debt proportions.

By: Hororgasm : October 6th, 2011-13:32

i missed the said auction today...sigh best, Horo

Like the reference entity, I will default too. [nt]

By: ArthurSG : October 6th, 2011-17:18

No message body

Think the H1 are not as mass market yet but if it was a PP, it would have been quite

By: patrickmaniac : October 6th, 2011-19:22

different? Another point is that the mark up could be so astro that the discount is astro for the 1st buyer too. so not much mula hit to him anyway. cheers PAt

Your point on PP was noted in my starting post

By: ArthurSG : October 6th, 2011-19:25

As for the discount on the Haldimann in particular.. I donl;t think it was/is that astronomical. In any case, the greater point in the lareg percentage loss on new watches in general but there will of course be exceptions to any rule.

This sort of reduction ...

By: AndrewD : October 6th, 2011-20:43

... is what I see from many other secondary markets for watches. It seems reasonable to me. A good time to buy? Andrew

Seems to always be a good time for secondary market watches

By: ArthurSG : October 6th, 2011-20:50

and always a bad time for new watches by the looks of resale prices.

I am no economist, but ...

By: AndrewD : October 7th, 2011-03:45

... it seems to me that this secondary market price is where you define the true "value" of a watch, in all that term means. The profits for the manufacture and the middle men/dealers have been stripped away and you are left with the intrinsic value that ...

+1 ... I concur.

By: flightmaster71 : October 7th, 2011-04:01

Andrew, I completely agree. I have tried to explain to casual watch appreciating friends that much of the premium attributed to watch purchases from authorised dealers or boutiques lies in the sales experience or to put it crudely the "ego stroking" that ...

Of the service and ego stroking.. I agree to some extent

By: ArthurSG : October 7th, 2011-20:26

But at what cost.. take most watches... one loses 40-65% off the discounted purchase (not even list!) price and that can be anything from $5K to $100+K... sure, being served a nice cuppa in good china in a nicely decked out boutique with great ambiance by...

+1. that's how I guesstimate the intrinsic value after all the madness.

By: patrickmaniac : October 7th, 2011-04:33

Very much what happened to the green milgauss and green ceramic sub. Cheers PAt

That would be a shocking benchmark...

By: Ornatus-Mundi : October 7th, 2011-04:42

for some watch industry CEOs. However, I have a problem with this (speaking as an economist!), as secondary watch markets might well fail to capture some 'watch externalities', such as serviceabilities (ok, you might argue they use a large discount rate),...

Maybe you have to choose which secondary market?

By: AndrewD : October 7th, 2011-16:41

Thanks for the additional insights, Magnus. I agree with all you say, but perhaps choosing which secondary market to observe gives more useful data points. It would seem to me that Collectors Markets on our (and other) horological sites connects sellers a...

I will agree and sadly that reinforces my horofatigue

By: ArthurSG : October 7th, 2011-09:06

That is inclusive of what I mean by the the madness each of us allows to continue. Strip away and leave what matters and the scondary market price of a lot of watches against the new (and even disocunted new) price make us look like fools I reckon. Of cou...

The seller actually make back his money.....

By: CL : October 7th, 2011-20:39

I remembered being quoted a Platinum H1 a few years ago for around USD$75k. So if the buyer bought it at this rate or lesser, I think he did not lose a single dime. The current H1 is way too expensive , very similar to Vianney's Antiqua which also has a s...

If that is the case, that is good to know. I think this

By: ArthurSG : October 7th, 2011-20:51

H1 is not that old though.

It is an old model from 2005...

By: CL : October 8th, 2011-19:12

the price then was a lot cheaper. *CL