Baron - Mr Red
14613
Rolex and radioactive material
I would like to start a thread about this theme. We all know that once upon a time, radium used to be used on lume. Back in the 1950s, believe it or not, radium water was actively marketed as a health-giving drink. Likewise, radium toothpaste was also widely on sale as giving one's teeth that extra "glow". It was one of the ingredients in certain types of chocolate and many other consumable products. It was of course also used on lumes in watches. The workers who conducted that particular work were, inevitably, women and one of the practises that was commonly adopted in order to get a very good finish on the lume was for the tip of the paint brush that had radium on it to be placed in the mouth so that it was compressed and aligned so that a neat finish could be applied to the watch dial.
Many of these women subsequently died of various forms of cancer as the radium quite often dissolved their bones in their mouths. Direct contact with radium is not a good thing. Is it dangerous on a watch lume? This is a question that has been looked at by a number of people. I know I have taken each of my watches to a physics professor i know and had the radiation levels tested. So often, a simple Geiger-counter test is not enough to determine if something is dangerous or not. Of course, if a reading is off the scale, it would be a worry. The half-life of radium is certainly long enough to keep it active for a very long period, though it would depend on what isotope was being examined. Suffice to say, Rolex were wary enough of it to make a shift to tritium. When i tested my watches, those with radium recorded well above background noise but actually not anywhere near levels that are seen as dangerous. Further, if the readings were taken through the case back, then most if not all the effect was nullified. So, unless you go to sleep with your head on the front of the watch, it is basically just not an issue. Inhaling the lume....well that is not something i would try.
Tritium was the next lume of choice by Rolex. For the record, not one of my watches with tritium is now recording above-noise levels of radiation. The half-life is pretty short.
But it is not tritium that i find interesting....(cue Marcello...LoL), it is the debate about strontium, the shift from radium to tritium (and the so-called exclaim point that has appeared on so many Rolexes around the period 1958-1963) and exactly what this all meant. First things first...it would be great to put to bed the idea that Rolex just did not use Strontium on their watches. Strontium is most definitely not a nice radioactive buddy to have. It can cause serious problems and as it breaks down, it turns into something with an even longer half-life. Basically, as far as I can understand, strontium potentially gets more radioactive as the longer it is around (on your watch) and its characteristics are not pleasant. So....did Rolex really jump from Radium to Strontium to Tritium...... what happened. Thanks to Nicolas for the scans, but I thought this was an interesting starter...
So, on the basis of these two pieces of information, what conclusions can i draw? Well, I think drawing a conclusion would be premature. What appears a reasonable assumption, then?
1) Rolex did use strontium on some watches.
2) The strontium used was applied to the bezel and not the dial.
3) The strontium was used on a very small batch of watches restricted to early GMTs
4) No other Rolex reference had the strontium issue.
5) If the strontium issue was related to just the GMT, is it reasonable to assume that the so-called exclam mark that appears across a number of references, notably Submariners, has absolutely nothing to do with strontium.
6) Or could it be that, in order to dispel concern, the exclam mark was applied in order to confirm to the buying public that no dangerous radioactive material was present?
So many questions and such a deep topic to discuss bearing in mind no records truly confirm what happened in that 1958-63 twilight era.
What I will say is that I believe it is entirely plausible for a watch to have an exclam and STILL have radium. The exclam does not, to my mind, indicate a switch from radium to tritium.
Would be great to hear if anyone has any thoughts, ideas, theories or even facts that can be added to this issue.
This message has been edited by Baron on 2013-11-15 04:03:24 This message has been edited by Baron on 2013-11-15 04:08:37
Rolex and radioactive material
I would like to start a thread about this theme. We all know that once upon a time, radium used to be used on lume. Back in the 1950s, believe it or not, radium water was actively marketed as a health-giving drink. Likewise, radium toothpaste was also wid...
now I have clearly understood ...
you hate me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LLLOOLLLL
I cannot contribute
Other than to say I think the topic is absolutely fascinating and thank you for starting it! It will allow myself and others to learn about this and it is an important topic in Rolex history. Best Edmond
back to serious posts..
exclamation point on Rolex dials can be seen only in watches from 1962 and 1963 , so with case number roughly in the range from 750.000 up 1.000.000 .
Basically, I agree. I would make the ! start a bit before. 2d half of 1961.
And I would be more comfortable with end '62 than 63 for a ! dial. While I would be very comfortable with an underline dial from 1963. Best, Nicolas
good point ...
the only watch with excl. dial I have found in my records with a case from 1961 is a 1675 ( cased in the 695.000 range ) which has in my opinion a later dial with the so called " twisted mouth " . I think that we must check also the consistance between di...
oui Monsieur !
pretty sure !! btw the case range is very wide : from 750.000 up to 1.000.000
sorry for the multiple posts ...
in any case I obviously agree with you : for me the excl. point is not related to the switch from radium ( or other luminous material still unknown ) to tritium ... I would even dare to say that is not related at all to the luminous material on dial/hands...
That is true that as for Exl Dots and Underline Dials, there are no facts, only theories.
That is a fact. ;) Best, Nicolas
indeed.....
.....only theories, but hey, that can be like a detective story! I have a bugbear about the use of strontium. As far as I can see, i see absolutely no evidence from anyone as to why strontium was used...or indeed IF strontium was used other than these ver...
bravissimo !!!
maybe one day Rolex will eventually decide to enlighten all of us ..... in the meantime we can well continue to play !!
radium
i'm somewhat of a radiation expert, and have always wanted to own a 6542 for my personal testing. Technically, if we knew in general what the activity of the original paint was, i could measure the current activity quite simply and date the watch! it woul...
i am assuming that Strontium is much less easy to stop...
.....and that it could pass through material more readily? I was speaking to a surgeon who told me that strontium had a much greater ability to get into human bone tissue and alter the dna
strontium
yes, both radium and strontium are calcium homologues and can track deposition of calcium (ie go to bone). unlike radium, strontium emits beta particles, which again is a type of ionizing radiation, but yes, you are correct, as opposed to alpha radiation ...
These documents lead me to another conclusion.
" Only 605 6542 were imported to the U.S ". This document is dated from December '59. So, at the end of the 6542 production. It is a personal guess that the U.S were an important market for Rolex. Maybe the most important. I don't know how many were impor...
So many issues of debate here...
knowing when the switch to tritium occurred and what the Exclam point means seems one that is hard to prove. But, and still nobody has suggested otherwise, is it a reasonably strong argument to make that strontium was almost certainly NEVER used on a dial...
We also had Promethium ( PM 147 ) on some watches...
Like, for example, the TR 900 ( first batch in 1964, Second batch in 1966 ) both batches using the PM 247. I would tend to agree with you on Strontium, and its limited use. Best, Nicolas This message has been edited by amanico on 2013-11-14 01:42:34
more likely ...
PM 147 ..... I know that I'm very fussy .. so please try to bear me !! ...
From radium to luminova -part 1
here is the part 1 of a work written by me around 2000 for the Italian magazine " Orologi & Market " ( at that time owned by Pucci ). footnotes : 1) part 2 coming ASAP ; 2) the translation from italian to english was not mine , so I'm not responsible ...
Yep...
.....this is perfect...i am adding this to my library on this issue. Your english is better than my italian....i take my instruction on italian pronunciation from Brad Pitt!!!
well .. this can be a praise ...
or not depending on the state of your italian .. LLOOLLLL
i say it just like him...
.....though of course when i do it, it looks much cooler (LoL)
a big thank to Bill that ...
faster than lightning has transcribed my post from the jpg image format to text . shinden !! ( from Japanese : " magnificent lightning " ) domo arigato !
From radium to luminova -part 2
In the last article we considered that the amount of radiations issued by the tritium contained in a watch it actually very low and that, in any case, it is not harmful to our health. Watch producers (especially Japanese ones/ front the 70’s on had been s...
Thanks for this very interesting reading, Marcello.
As for the transition to Tritium to Luminova, I think it was, for Rolex watches, in 1998. BUT for other brands, Tritium was used much later, till circa 2006 ( Ex: Panerai for the Submersible, not the 24 or 25, but the 242, if the ref is exact- you see, no...
thanks to you mon amì ...
and btw tritium is still in use for military or " special " watches ..... ...
Did Rolex have a *standing order* to replace "High Rad" dials?
"The story behind the 6536/1 with III-57 caseback and 306.xxx serial is that the owner read an article in the Dutch newspaper by Schaap & Citroen jewelers asking owners of submariner to come back and change it to a less active / radioactive dial versi...
Hi Bill....
.....one question i have still puzzles me. I think the chronology suggested here makes sense. However, there is one leap of logic that doesn't work for me (yet)....and that is linking the strontium scare directly with any watch other than the GMT 6542. It...