Why Patek Philippe Is So Dominant? The Corporate Recipe At Patek Philippe...

Oct 28, 2018,08:56 AM
 

Let's analyze why Patek Philippe is so dominant.  What their corporate recipe is.  And what other brands are trying to learn from Patek Philippe. 


Why do people buy the Patek Philippe brand?  At the end of the day...  People buy what they find familiar, and what they think has a beautiful design.  Patek Philippe has great brand recognition, and great designs. 

Why do consumers buy a Patek Philippe watch?  If I thought Patek Philippe does have incredibly designed timepieces.  The Stern family knows a lot about design as they were in dial design and manufacturing prior to being the stewards of Patek Philippe. 

If I had never heard of Patek Philippe, and even after doing my research about it, still couldn't find a lot about it, I wouldn't buy it.  Fortunately, this is rarely the case, since brand recognition of Patek Philippe is very good. 

If I did not know enough about the watch industry to evaluate the quality of a Patek Philippe on my own, I would have to defer to known experts, watch critics, journalists' opinions, etc.  Not every Patek Philippe buyer knows how to properly evaluate a watch and what to look for to determine the quality of a timepiece.  But when they do their research and read published articles, most journalists cast Patek Philippe in a very positive light. 

The truth of the matter is that Patek Philippe does make some great designs.  The latest Ladies' Twenty-4 round case watches may not be indicative of their design prowess (the latest consensus is that the design is not extremely attractive nor unique); but Patek Philippe certainly has made some stunning and iconic designs.  Example: The 5110 and 5130 World Timer is the most beautiful World Time watch from any brand.  The 5140 Perpetual Calendar is a great design and very thin.  The 5960 is another great design that's sporty and elegant.  Many would even argue that many Patek Philippe models are more aesthetically attractive than their equivalent competitor's model.  Aesthetics are paramount.  Patek Philippe usually excels in design. 


A stunning design of Louis Cottier's original WorldTime vision. Image Credit: Patek Philippe

Patek Philippe does advertise a lot.  And I MEAN A LOT.  Advertisements are somewhere around 3% of the gross retail revenue!  It is estimated more than $2 billion US Dollars of Patek Philippe timepieces are transacted at the retail level.  Patek Philippe enjoys a high average sale and high volume.  Considering how much value Patek Philippe watches sell for at retail value; it is one of the largest watch retail advertisers in the world.  Brand awareness is at a very enviable level that other companies cannot easily match because they don't have the revenue.  Not only do they spend a fortune on advertising, they came up with a great slogan that's worth a fortune in itself...  "You never own a Patek Philippe...  You merely take care of it for the next generation..."  It's a little corny, but it resonates so well with the buying public.  So great job to Patek Philippe; massive spending, quality in execution, and a thoughtful message!  They couldn't have done this better.  Combine the fact that Patek Philippe (like Vacheron Constantin, another great maison) strives to create super complex pieces and strives to have high auction values, a lot of owners feel that the total cost of ownership of a Patek Philippe can be reduced if there is a higher resale value. 





Image Credit: Patek Philippe


Quality...  We're going to go into movement architecture and movement finishing.  We already discussed design quality and Patek Philippe's designs are among the best (Stern family used to be dial makers and have hired great designers). 
(1)  Movement architecture is great; the watches are usually mostly thin, complex, and that thin case design allows them to be worn very elegantly in a variety of ways.  Thin is beautiful and versatile.  You can't go wrong with thin.  Even Patek Philippe's complex watches are often among the thinnest in their class.  Being a Geneva based maison, watches are supposed to be thin.  Generally the French side of Switzerland is supposed to make thinner watches.  The German side of Switzerland can be excused for making thicker watches (a la IWC Schaffhausen).  Patek Philippe movements are generally layer-cake movements, but the components are so well designed that even the 240Q which is a perpetual module added to an existing 240 base movement, the watch is still extremely thin.  Lange may have integrated movements, but they're thick due to a less efficient design and Lange adds a 3/4 plate that increases the thickness of the movement (Germans believe in the three-quarter plate adds rigidity and therefore accuracy to the movement).  Consumers can't fault Lange for the thickness added due to the traditional 3/4 plate design, that would be unfair as it's a tradition to be followed by German watchmakers.  Patek Philippe's quality is also incredible; the Minute Repeaters have an excellent volume (loud and clear), consistent speed 17 seconds to 19 seconds for 12:59 sequence), and great crystal clear tone quality with little background noise - very strong performance and more consistent than other brands.  Thierry Stern personally listens to every minute repeater before it is dispatched to the client. 

A quick interview with Thierry Stern about minute repeaters: www.patek.com

(2)  The truth of the matter is that Patek Philippe movement finishing quality isn't terribly special.  Many other brands have higher quality finishing on their movement.  Look at these photos from W220's fantastic post about his watch and you can see the Patek Philippe movement doesn't pass scrutiny at high magnification. 
Let me be clear; Patek Philippe movement finishing is VERY GOOD.  There is BETTER finishing available from other brands, namely A. Lange & Soehne; you want great movement finishing, consider a Lange.  And the BEST are from independent brands and a little known brand called Montblanc Villeret.  Another moderator pointed out, it's important to note that Patek Philippe timepieces are made of rhodium plated brass, not German Silver.  Brass is more difficult to finish, the rhodium plating covers some of the detail in the finish as well. 



This image shows some polishing chatter in the anglage on this very expensive Patek Philippe 240Q Perpetual Calendar timepiece.  Image Credit: W220


Excellent movement finishing, notice the polished column wheel cap.  Skinniest anglage.  Image Credit: Foversta



The movement of the Lange is extremely well finished and visually arresting to look at.  Image Credit: Foversta


This is the best movement finishing you can get from any large brand.  Better than Patek Philippe, better than A. Lange & Soehne.  Fattest anglage.  Photo Credit: Montblanc

Link to W220's post with great macro photographs, see them and make your own determination:
www.watchprosite.com

An article by Foversta that compares to very expensive perpetual calendar split chronograph timepieces:
www.watchprozine.com


Image Credit: Patek Philippe

I have met Thierry Stern several times.  Thierry is definitely not his father, but he understands talent (very important, hence why I put it first), he understands the company's strengths and weaknesses, and he's determined to enhance the company's strengths and improve the weaknesses.  I am confident in his ability to captain this company.  People who want to see an ultra conservative, perfect, super-polished, and reserved leader won't see it in Thierry.  His differences compared to his father is also sometimes a benefit to consumers; he's much more open to discussion and willing to answer difficult questions posed by consumers.  He's definitely his own man with his own way of doing things. 


Image Credit: Patek Philippe


As for the switch to the Patek Philippe seal...  I admit, I'm not a fan of this.  But I have to have empathy from the side of Patek Philippe.  Patek Philippe feels in their opinion they do go above and beyond the Geneva Seal requirements and they are not noticed for this.  For instance, their steel gears are finished to a higher quality than required.  Most other brands are close to the minimum standard Geneva Seal requirements.  If Brand XYZ has a Geneva Seal at the bare minimum, Patek Philippe doesn't want general consumers to assume Patek Philippe timepieces are equivalent in quality to Brand XYZ.  It's a wrong perception they wanted to correct.  Combined with the millions they have to pay to get certified, Patek Philippe didn't feel this was a strong ROI.  So they SPENT MILLIONS MORE to develop the Patek Philippe Seal, run a multi-million dollar marketing campaign around the Patek Philippe Seal, and are hoping the endeavor will pay off over the next ten years (about 2018/2019 will be the 10 year anniversary of the Patek Philippe Seal).  Will it pay off?  Hard to tell.  I still prefer the Geneva Seal.  But if you examine the concept with empathy and objectively, I can't call foul.  And yes, there are brands that are Geneva Seal brands that don't have as nice of movement finishing as Patek Philippe yet claim they're just as good.  These claims can be very unfair from Patek Philippe's viewpoint.  In the end, consumers benefit; Patek Philippe retains its high quality with either seal, and Patek Philippe's departure from the Geneva Seal created enough commotion that the Geneva Seal increased its standards in 2012 partially in response to the departure. 

In conclusion...  1-Design, 2-marketing, 3-resale perceptions, 4-innovation, and 5 a high level of quality is what makes Patek Philippe a competitive brand.  All the other brands try to emulate Patek Philippe in one way or another, but few have succeeded.  Generally, other brands succeed best by creating their own design niches with less traditional designs and more expressive designs.  There are other horology brands that do some aspects better than Patek Philippe, but none are better than Patek Philippe's marketing.  And no horology brand does all of these as well as Patek Philippe as consistently as Patek Philippe. No brand is perfect, not even Patek Philippe; but this brand is one of the few that can continuously produce extremely desirable pieces. 

If you're reading this, you probably are a Patek Philippe owner.  Rest assured, you have one of the best timepieces on the planet.  But don't just assume it's the best because you were told this.  I hope this post educated you so you know why your watch is so special compared to others!  Thank you for reading, and please share your thoughts below!  I read every single comment! 


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Comments: view entire thread

 

Why was the original topic removed from the overview? It seems, that it can now only be reached via this topic.

 
 By: nafetS : October 28th, 2018-09:16
Other questioning (even agressive) topics, e.g. on the brand Laurent Ferrier, were left unchanged. And there was nothing aggressive going on in this one so far.

I am equally disappointed

 
 By: iadxb : October 28th, 2018-09:53
I can see no reason for removing the original post (or hiding it under this one). I used to believe that watchprosite had clear guidelines on what content will be edited or banned, sadly there seems to be no room for objective discussion when it comes to ... 

Explain exactly where was there an objective horological discussion?

 
 By: Miranda : October 28th, 2018-10:20
This brand is crap my brand is better bull is going to end

I went back and re-read the original post

 
 By: iadxb : October 28th, 2018-12:08
Didn't see anything of 'this brand is crap my brand is better' sort of language, not even an insinuationof it. What I am really objecting to is the censorship, which I found unjustified in this case.

Bye. [nt]

 
 By: Miranda : October 28th, 2018-12:10

Let me explain....it put on hold

 
 By: Miranda : October 28th, 2018-10:18
I want this forum to move forward in a manner that allows for shared passion I don’t mind genuine critical analysis of a watch or movement, but generalised this is overhyped etc etc I am no longer tolerating Nor am I going to tolerate talk about investmen... 

Advertisement budget

 
 By: tom2517 : October 28th, 2018-09:16
Is gotta to be far more than 3% of the revenue. In fact, it’s probably the biggest expense. For luxury product it’s usually 50% of the revenue. I think Tom Ford has this quote “how to increase sales by 300 million? Easy, give me 300 million advertisement ... 

As an analyst and consultant in this field...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:10
I'm fairly certain it's around 3%. Part of that advertisement is co-opted with retailers. The total budget in advertisement is somewhere around 3% or a little more. Not all retailers use their co-op marketing budget on advertising (some dealers use the fu... 

How did you arrive at 3%?

 
 By: tom2517 : October 28th, 2018-16:56
What’s the breakdown? What % does the cost of making the watch occupies? % of other costs like admin? % of margin? I am pretty sure LV spent close to 50%.

Permit me to inquire, how did you arrive that LV spent 50% of gross revenue on marketing?

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-19:59
You say you're "pretty sure LV spent close to 50%" of their revenue on marketing? Permit me to inquire again, do you have industry experience? Furthermore, you're making a comparison between Louis Vuitton and Patek Philippe. Kind of apple and oranges. I c... 

Doesn't figures like this comes from analyst like you?

 
 By: tom2517 : October 28th, 2018-20:59
“Forbes’ list of world’s most valuable brands show Louis Vuitton invests 42.9 percent of its 12.9 billion dollars sales on marketing and advertising activities.” Most consumer good companies invest between 10-30% of sales into marketing, and there is no r... 

Thank you. For this post. You make the Patek watch owner feel good in buying a Patek.

 
 By: geross : October 28th, 2018-09:33
Your article, lifts the spirit of a Patek watch owner. His in cloud 9. Best wishes, wonderful to know. 😉 Geross.

Excellent post Patrick!!

 
 By: sham1 : October 28th, 2018-09:35
Well researched and it covered every relevant area without being heavy reading. Yes I am a Patek fan and my small collection is built around Pateks but I do acknowledge that there are better finished watches around especially among the independents. I kne... 

Just confirming mostly things you already know!

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:16
Yes. Definitely. A Villeret is so good. Superb. Wonderful. Every movement finishing lover should own one! Myself included!

This was a really interesting read, Patrick -- thanks for it!

 
 By: CR : October 28th, 2018-09:36
One thing I'm very curious about is your statement, "All the other brands try to emulate Patek Philippe in one way or another...." With what other brands and models do you see that Patek-specific emulation clearly happening? I'm curious because I don't no... 

Permit me to clarify...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:28
Every brand wants to be a leader in either design, resale perceptions, innovation, and quality. The best job super desirable brands have done is in design and resale perceptions. Look at Richard Mille; it can't compete with Patek Philippe in a classic wat... 

PP makes overhyped mass market products but a few gems too

 
 By: Alex25 : October 28th, 2018-10:03
PP has maybe the best marketing department. The way they advertise is remarkable. Apart from usual means of AD they don’t bother to bid on auctions and inflate prices. For example: not long ago a steel chronograph was sold for about 12 mil. dollars. The A... 

What is free slagging opportunity?

 
 By: Alex25 : October 28th, 2018-10:41
I am ready to debate

“-makes-overhyped-mass-market-products” [nt]

 
 By: Miranda : October 28th, 2018-10:45
Just curious You owned a Patek? Been on factory visit?

Let’s talk facts

 
 By: Alex25 : October 28th, 2018-11:18
If you have arguments against what I have written I would be grateful to discuss them.

Here are the facts

 
 By: Miranda : October 28th, 2018-11:24
one wants to hear informed opinion and knowledge. You have neither. What you have is uninformed bias. And that has no place on the forum. Bye.

Good points!

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:35
They do have some really strong pieces. Incredibly strong pieces. And yes, some may be the subject of overhype. But who can we blame for that overhype? Probably less informed consumers? Hopefully this article will help inform consumers.

Thanks Patrick for a well researched post ! Overall, Thierry has been adventurous and has produced some controversial references that have proven to be...

 
 By: GLau : October 28th, 2018-10:06
successful after initial polarization. For example, 5960/1A bracelet and 5524 pilot. IMO, the 5531 and its new functions solidified its top position. Let's see how long Patek can stay on top.

Thank you Gordon for reading!

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:39
I think they're going to stay on top for a long time. Good marketing, good product, good everything. Sure, some references won't be hot, some are duds, a lot of women's models sell slowly (not to mention it seems the new women's model isn't garnering univ... 

Agree with Gordon

 
 By: traineract : October 30th, 2018-09:32
I like the rather adventurous approach by Thierry to engage a greater younger audience. Also echo that this is a great post by Patrick. Well researched and balanced. Happy to read such posts, always.

Thank you for the generous comments and thoughts...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 30th, 2018-11:56
I never really noticed Thierry going after a younger audience specifically, but now that you mention it, I can see he has done some things that are possibly targeted at a younger audience. Good point! And thank you for sharing your very nice comments. I'm... 

Thanks Patrick for this knowledgeable and beautifully written post.

 
 By: FabR : October 28th, 2018-11:38
Honestly, as a mathematician, I am normally skeptical about the strength of an argument that begins with "As a business analyst, here is my objective response to...", but I'm glad that I went on reading, as I truly found it a compelling and thoroughly res... 

My pleasure!

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:49
Healthy skepticism is always a good thing! I read everything with some skepticism, even the news from major news sources. My analyst role is mostly utilized in technology and luxury retail for Wall Street fund consulting. I thank you for continuing to rea... 

Indeed, it's in part also a concern of mine, since unfortunately rare handcrafts are at a significant risk of running out of fresh talent in today's market.

 
 By: FabR : October 28th, 2018-14:33
For instance, they told me when I visited Geneva this summer that they currently have *only one* artist in charge of the wood marquetry dials --- scary! That's why I hugely admire Patek's efforts in preserving and perpetuating these arts, as I think they ... 

Indeed...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-23:55
I hope they do work hard at training these apprentice artists. Only through this training will this art survive. Otherwise, it will likely be lost permanently. The gentleman making the wood marquetry is definitely a special treasure. Suzanne Rohr has slow... 

We try to have some bare minimum journalistic standard on PuristSPro...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:53
We always think, what posts have value and can give insight. And yes, I personally think it's a little strange to say "A a business analyst, here is my objective response to..." as I think it's not proper to state this. However, I've been reading some Har... 

That's a good point...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:40
The German Silver is a more consistent material compared to the harder rhodium plated brass. The rhodium plate also covers up a lot of the beautiful embellishment. Good point. I forgot that one!

Hi Patrick! Excellent ode to being a Patek aficionado!

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : October 28th, 2018-12:28
I'd like to put forward the hypothesis that the finishing issue and the move to a new certification are perhaps linked. Further, I would say that for some fans of horology Patek's move away from hand finishing for much of their catalogue represents a much... 

So hard to say...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:58
The only way one can really say is to compare the factory operations and production processes before and after the Geneva Seal. And the sad thing is that I can't state with certainty what the operations were before and what their operations are now becaus... 

Thanks for your kind reply!

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : October 28th, 2018-13:45
I'm curious about modern Patek and its recent history and hope to learn more thanks to experts here on purists like you.

I agree with you. As for any other brand, there are good and less good things. One example I know very well: Their World Time. Not the best, technically speaking, but the most charming.

 
 By: amanico : October 28th, 2018-12:29
Another example: The 5960 ( A or not ). Technically very good, but the pushers are not very pleasant to use, and the movement finishings are good, but at this level of price, there is better... As for the image of the brand, the motto is surprising ( you ... 

Well said! Too many people put Patek Philippe on a pedestal...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-12:59
And some put it in the bin. A lot of new clients to the Patek Philippe family too whom are only buying based on brand recognition. Thank you Nicolas!

Very well worded from you both.

 
 By: datograph : October 28th, 2018-13:52
Sometimes I also find it very difficult to discuss certain things with these clients. They surely have some of the most annoying fans in the watch world...

Yep

 
 By: tom2517 : October 28th, 2018-17:08
Agree with what you said. World time not the best, but most charming.

Patek is yours to buy or not

 
 By: watch-er : October 28th, 2018-13:08
the choice is always yours. If you think some other brand represents better quality at a better price, optioning for that brand would make sense for you. One thing that supports PP product value is that the Company has a very long history of standing behi... 

Absolutely

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 28th, 2018-13:13
We all make personal choices based on personal and subjective criteria. Can anyone really make a definitive judgment of what is or is not correct? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some value customer service as THE issue when buying a high end watch.... 

True... It's a holistic view...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-20:18
I probably over emphasize on movement finishing more than I should. I often remind myself, it's a whole package, wear-ability, etc.

Agreed, but

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 29th, 2018-01:38
If movement finishing is THE key issue for you, then that is fine. It’s how you should evaluate a watch. But, for others, it might be history of the manufacturer that is THE key issue with movement finishing way down the list. For those people, that is al... 

Good points, Joe. As for movement finishings, it depends on the brand we are talking about. For example, we don't expect a superb movement in a vintage ( or modern ) Rolex.

 
 By: amanico : October 29th, 2018-01:42
For a vintage Rolex, we are more about history, charm, soul.... For a Patek, it is different. Same for Lange, or some Independents such as Voutilainen...

Again, I would say that

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 29th, 2018-02:33
... the emphasis that any individual places on the importance of the finishing is 100% personal and specific. Regardless of whether it’s Rolex or Lange, the importance that any one person places on a factor is just specific to them. I am going to use Mile... 

You're absolutely right! I often have to remind myself I can like a watch with less than ideal movement finishing...

 
 By: patrick_y : October 29th, 2018-01:56
I'm a big fan of the Reverso watches from Jaeger-LeCoultre, despite most of them have a lower emphasis on movement finishing. But I would never publicly slag JLC because I fault their movement finishing. That'd just be uncouth.

Good point!

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-20:15
But why is Vacheron Constantin, a company that is likely to be around for another 20 years, not enjoying the residual value of a much younger company like Patek Philippe? Hence Patek Philippe still has a special X factor that other companies don't yet enj... 

Interesting Post Patrick, I enjoyed reading your insights, I would add to it what makes Patek dominant is its history as well....

 
 By: SALMANPK : October 28th, 2018-13:45
You get this when visiting their wonderful museum in Geneva. Patek's have been worn by some of the most well known and influential people in Power, Film, Business and Adventurers and so on in the last 100 years, same goes for Rolex. That Aura and percepti... 

Good point. A very rich history that Patek Philippe actively draws from.

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-20:20
Patek Philippe draws upon their history more than other brands. Good point! Thanks for reading and commenting!

Hi Patrick

 
 By: benlee338 : October 28th, 2018-17:43
I am the OP on this subject. Thank you for your very detailed analysis and reply to my original post. This writeup certainly brings a lot of credibility and pride for us PP owners and I learned a lot from it. I also greatly enjoyed the feedback and commen... 

Hello Ben!

 
 By: patrick_y : October 28th, 2018-20:46
I'm not sure that the hacking feature would wear out the mechanism. I don't know. I unfortunately can't shift your original comments on your original thread to here. Once it's in hold, I can't access it. Have a great week Ben! Thank you for your response!...