1 the pins of a high end watch, and why we pay so much money

Jul 02, 2013,23:24 PM
 


The pins of a good, expensively made, costly, time consuming wristwatch that was put together demands a certain "honesty".

This is something MOST consumers assume is done.

The PINS are probably the most revealing of how much care has been put in.

NOT all watches of the same brand will have similar standards.

You should get what you pay for.

It is NOT important if you are thinking of anything less than $10,000 USD. In my opinion.

BUT...when it comes to why I bought a Freak, or a Vianney or something from MB&F or DeBethune....even the PINS...I examine.

Alan Teoh of theHourGlass will often see me with a Canon MPE65 and 2 LED torches.

I photograph, and examine.

That's why I sort of fell so much for the work ethics of UN, Vianney, MB&F , DeBethune and so on....especially the early Richard Milles of the tourbillons...the RM02 version 1.

FIRST:

I examine to see if the pins were turned, profile turned, with precision. These are N6 or N5 surfaces.

The roughness is measured by 0.4micro meters!

This is EXPENSIVE.

It can only be achieved by polishing!

The pins MUST BE PROFILE TURNED IN THEIR FINAL SHAPE.

This has to take into account whether it will be FLAT TIP OR ROUNDED TIP.

a 10 micrometer thickness has to be given for a round tip.

a 20 micrometer for a BLACK POLISHED tip if intended to match the pin's final resting place on a bridge.



 



I can tell you, first hand, thru my many visits to BOTH Swiss and Japanese top end rooms, that despite this HIGH precision, studs or tips up to 20 micrometers are still left behind!!!!

These have to be hand removed!!!! Hours of work.

These if NOT removed well, can be SEEN with a loupe, with NO training...just a good friend to tell you where to look.

MORE:

to help the watchmaker DRIVE the pin into the bridge and across to the other bridge/part, the TIPS of each pin has to be DIRECTLY cut/milled down in a 100% regular 15 degree angle..making a MICRO ANGLAGE in a way....actually quite INCREDIBLE TO SEE. i HAVE SEEN.

The bloody pin has to be exactly made for the bridge. Hence...multiple diameters and machines have to be procured, if you are "in house", like the Freak and many UN movements you saw in 2013 Basel.

Precision driving or staking of a pin, 180 degrees to the surface is a MUST.

A slant is obvious. You can imagine how stressful the watch makers are, at this BASIC level!!!!

See below, the picture. The atmosphere of calm, the noise, the chatter, the mood, it has to be "condusive". I have spent weeks at UN and only days at other factories.

BUT...I was MOST impressed by UN, IWC and Vianney Halter and Dufour and Seiko.

CALM.

SERENE.

Productive.

Imagine..to drive a pin into a plate, one has to MAKE a circle, on the plate, by drilling slowly a push pin orientated to the exact diameter and lenght of the intended pin.

The stake used must be exactly placed...not even off by slant or position.

Like lining two sewing needles tip to tip, at 180 degrees!

If you look at a GOOD movement, you will see what in rough mechanics, called a countersunk, it is an EXACT polished...REALLY polished...champher around the hole for the intended pin.

This is to decorate IMHO, because modern alloys are diferent, but actually helps to prevent any looseness when the pin is being driven by force thru the hole.


 



WORSE:

In order to prevent SCRATCHING the pin..the tip of the pin, I mean, the surface of the driving tool has to be POLISHED...and not just with a machine, but with a rod called a reamer.


 



You see here many tools.

For repairs, and removals of a pin, it is good to have a slight protrusion of the pin.

NOT ALWAYS. But in certain cases.

BUT, should it be needful that a pin protrudes out, than the PUREST form of finish, so small, can be admired.

The lavish care on that protrusion is MADNESS. That's why I stay sane.

Choosing between flat or polished protruding tips are nowadays aften of aesthetics.

Often, a CONE shaped end is used, if they wish to make the pin INVISIBLE after the plates are assembled, as the cones can be crushed polished into the surface, hiding ALL previously visible gaps.

I will stop here.

Later, I can describe, if you wish, the machining process of the pins.

For NOW..forget 3D printing.

But later, say 2023...maybe.


 



Now..look at the HOLES on the MB&F 1.

Look at the polished pin holding a ruby opposite the tourbillon at 3 oclock.

INCREDIBLE work..yes?

CAN YOU FIND 5 POLISHED ROUNDED PINS?

Can you imagine how mush work, hours, errors and redo has happened?

Look at JUST the bridge that holds the ruby for the tourbillon, and note the champer around the brass ring!

Note the brass ring's champer around the ruby.

I have NOT discussed even the screws, but here, you can admire the POLISHED screws (11 are here, can you find them all in this pic alone. there are many more all over), and note the even and polished gap for the 2 screws around the tourbillon's screws.

The other screws have polished SIDES of the screw heads...can you see?Imagine, if you will, that some of the "holes" have pins.

ALL of the holes are polished to N5.

Incredible? Now, that's value for money.


The spin of the tourb is hiding the amazing sharpness of the 3 arms.



Using my Nikon feild microscope, I examined the edges of the 4 triangular (ony 2 seen here in this pic), they are black polished and the surfaces of these triangles.


I am not a watchmaker, so forgive my terminology, as I cannot call the parts by the correct names.

Note the brass washer or gold, over the sapphire bridges over the hour and minute hands. Note the polished screws, and how the torque has to be carefully turned down on all 4 tips to prevent the sapphire arms from tilting.

Note the hands for the time. They are solid gold, polished, and even bent in a 180 degree straight line from tip to pin. That is to catch reflected light, for easier reading...altough this watch is a tour de force of work...it was made to show value, and of work that is of easy acess to new collectors.

Old world work, seen best among the Pateks and APs, are often hidden.

But the MB&F1..you can SEE.

Now, that brings me to the FREAK and the DIAVOLO.

And Vianney.

You look thru them when you have time...you can SEE...they are very beautiful.

END of my first serious post.

I hope you like it.

Support good watch making, it is among the RAREST of HONEST trades, not spoilt by over investment in advertising.

Thanks again!!!!


More posts: DufourVianney Halter

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Incredible

 
 By: MWL : July 3rd, 2013-01:06
Just goes to show the dedication poured into all aspects of each piece. Even if I never take such a close look at each individual screw, its good to know that someone has spent time ensuring that it looks perfect.

Thanks. I will try to look thru my hard drives for more.

 
 By: bernard cheong : July 3rd, 2013-01:33
Just to share. If I never encountered the world of meticulous perfection in watchmaking, I would not have had a chance to meet and understand folks who are obsessed with "details" and precision to this degree, for use in normal population , among normal m... 

Exactly

 
 By: MWL : July 3rd, 2013-18:20
Even though the scale is small, it still allows accessibility. I wouldn't want to have to pick my way through an F-16 just to find the screws.

lol

 
 By: felixcrabtree : July 3rd, 2013-04:15
as a soon to be watchmaker i had no idea what you were talking about when you said pins, then i realised you were talking about pivots. let me tell you making pivots and finishing them properly is harder than you make it sound here! i have a english lever... 

YES. You are right on.

 
 By: bernard cheong : July 3rd, 2013-17:52
I spent a few days with Philip Dufour ( early in 2000-2004) and with another SEIKO maker, and what you said is CORRECT.

I thought you were talking about the locating pins

 
 By: ei8htohms : July 4th, 2013-09:53
Are you talking about pivots or the (simpler) locating pins/posts that are used to position the bridges and plates? _john

Yes. The locating pins were my main focus.

 
 By: bernard cheong : July 4th, 2013-17:50
The pinion shafts are only slightly more difficult, after all the trouble.

btw great post!

 
 By: felixcrabtree : July 3rd, 2013-04:19
i diddnt mean to sound rude haha

Educational post wrt that detail. I would not have thought to rate...

 
 By: Ronald Held : July 3rd, 2013-04:40
movement quality with that criterion.

Yeah. Max was modest. He never explained himself, because

 
 By: bernard cheong : July 3rd, 2013-17:50
I think he assumed that the EAST, the buyer already knew. He was about 60% correct. Many MB&F owners buy the watches because of the EXTREME prestige...I really mean it. In China or anywhere here in Asia, Pateks are bought to KEEP...and sell. MB&F ... 

Excellent post Bernard!

 
 By: Tim Jackson : July 3rd, 2013-17:29
Well documented and explained. Aspects of fine watchmaking that aren't allways appreciated and understood by collectors. I think your support of the Independents is honorable, as they need patrons like yourself to succeed. Like your second to last line sa... 

Thanks all of you guys, I will explain more(I have only UN facilities,among the best)

 
 By: bernard cheong : July 3rd, 2013-17:35
ALL of the whole watch is explained.

HOLY Smokes!

 
 By: Nicko16 : July 3rd, 2013-20:51
Very interesting and mind boggling. Makes me want to purchase a decent loupe :)