Seiko

OK. Speaking ONLY for myself, there are times when I buy a watch for a certain aesthetic.

Meaning "fashionable conversation piece" and "reasonably conventional"...meaning no way out stuff.

My choices for the first fight out for "budget no limits" will be these 2.

Do not, for ONE moment assume that the $12,000 usd Seiko is "cheap", it is far from that. It can fight and take on the $72,000 usd Otturatore.

Steel versus solid gold.

Japanese versus Swiss.

GMT spring drive, 100% hand assemble versus revolving dial with internal auto rotor and uber complicated spring loaded trigger complication.

Both are unique complications. Both will be overkill for "simple" on the surface looks, with super attention getting dimensions, thickness, and completely opposite snob appeal.

Here is one perspective:

First, an incredibly attention grabbing steel watch that looks and weighs in at 243gm, it feels like solid white gold. It has impeccable finish...look at the last picture of how the index is finely grained with parallel lines, and the white flower is superbly finished with the classic lines on the surface. Then see the word SEIKO...not even Grand Seiko. But SEIKO. Then the unavoidable question: $12,000 usd!!!!! Are you MAD? It is reverse snobery? That one will and can spend $12,000 on a SEIKO? Or are we looking at a Pilot pen evolution to Namiki market attack?

Then, the DeGrisogono. It is what it looks like...EXPENSIVE. Depending on pov, it can be seen as "understated", but then it is chock full of firsts...the hidden trigger activated 4 functions. The incredibly cool hidden rotor. The cool, very cool, complex soul ridden, completely filling the watch movement that is superbly executed. I will NOT hesistate to buy this watch...not at all...until $72,000 usd is mentioned...but...it will never surprise anyone..the price is actually "realistic" and well...good value.

Both will be conversation pieces at any kind of party.

Both are at the TOP of their Sopranos uber watch for the BOSS.

Both are not names which the common man will associate with...especially the SEIKO at $12,000.

Well:

 

Prepare next for IWC versus SEIKO.

Then Panerai versus SEIKO.

I am taking each one of my own watches to compare.

Here..who is the winner? If I can only pick ONE?

ANSWER:

It is a 100% draw. Because BOTH will be rare. I think after 3 years, you will not find either easily.

There may be 30 to 50 of the De Grisogono made...and surprise..there are only 30 of the SEIKOs.

In fact, this one was made in 2009. And the resale? The SEIKO has a zero loss...and my speculative take is that it will go "Namiki".

The De G ? It may fetch more...but at $73,000..it is already expensive, and players will be few.

Can China play here? NO.

The Chinese will not play ball with Japan, and it will support the Swiss. That is the way history will play its role.

Because of China, Seiko's upward roll will depend on the west's more developed tastes and on EDUCATION...the USA will be smart enough, and savvy enough, to collect the SEIKOs...as they are ALREADY doing.

In Australia, the Galante is selling more than well..it is selling better than Panerai. My parameter is volume...versus branding. The Australians surprised me that they are NOT easily fooled by branding and adverts...they are much more of "show me the stuff" guys...and I am SUPER impressed.

If we look at the uber expensive SEIKO spring drive and Pro Diver watches, they are selling super well, and that is taking ROLEX on its home ground!

These SEIKOs are VERY expensive...the spring drives are more expensive than Rolex.

And yet...the USA buyers are leaving a "no stock" and buy from Japan situation!

If you talk to retail, you will get mixed messages. My data is not perfect, not flawed,...but I talk to owners, and most of all...divers..like Gerald Lim, record holder in the early 2000s, of the free dive.

They buy SEIKO. Expensive ones that costs more than Rolex. WHY..because of the Seiko's obsession with functional accuracy and that the company BELIEVES that their watches are used for diving. Rolex, I am SURE, and feel free to blast me....are sure that 90% of their diving watches will not be on wet suited men/women. NO MATTER what their adverts say.

I am a ROLEX fan...I buy Rolex. I don't just write about Rolex. WHY? Because Rolex makes me FEEL good. And Seiko still cannot do that....not yet.

But the Galante and the Grand Seiko and the Spacewalk do.

Fact...I am now almost complete in my Explorer collection, from 1982 up to 2012. And complete in my GMT and Sub, from 1982 to present.

So...I love Rolex. But on a forum with this level of quality, I cannot be anything but BLUNT and truthful, without being rude. as far as possible.

Rolex will never need to worry. It has crossed over from watch to commodity, that is how far it has grown. No brand is at that level...not Patek, even if they think they are. Try pawning a patek complication...afterall, that is a Patek strong hold...it performs at auctions...after TONS of groundwork to get buyers to bid.

 

Rolex can sell on its own...it is solid cash, made into a watch. That is the HIGHEST compliment.

 

i have to dispute this concluding sentence:

"Rolex can sell on its own...it is solid cash, made into a watch. That is the HIGHEST compliment."

i just don't think that the convertibility of an object into cash is a particularly high compliment.  i understand that the implication here is that cash reflects the desire of others to have it.  but, frankly, the quality or worthiness of anything is not determined by a democratic calculus.  a great watch need not be popular, and it need not retain its value to be a great watch.  sometimes, the hoi polloi just don't know any better.... 

chris

Too many people are not critical of many posts, not just mine.

THANKS>

Your comment is 100% true.

But among the less wealthy in my place, people here may have to sell, to buy again, another day.

Rolex is superb when it comes to selling...nothing beats it here in Asia.

I, on the other hand, rarely sell...so my experience is darn lousy for selling...many will tell you that...it is truth!

I am a sucker for buying...haha.

That is exactly why they buy a Rolex....it is safe choice, if not the safest in terms of not losing much...that's relative of course.

But I have also heard of this saying "Never leave home without your Rolex" when traveling overseas....I was curious enough to ask why. The reply I got, it's the easiest thing to pawn for cold hard cash in case of emergencies in a foreign land, where you can't call a friend easily for help.

To Bernard, thanks for the comparison, honestly I still carry with me that pyschological barrier for Seiko when compared to "high end" brands, maybe it's because we grew up with Seiko being the cheapest available watch to buy when one has little money. But with the growing appreciation for the GS series especially within the forum here, we all learn a little more. And of course you being you, taking a big leap forward for mankind ( horology in this case ) we are lucky enough to see these extreme comparisons which frankly I don't know where else we can read about because no one else will do these sort of thing.

Thanks Bernard

But I am a naturally mischievious person.

What I like too, is that the forum is very gentlemanly, and not demeaning to the less well read or less wealthy.

It is noble.

I also like the purists for its honesty, and a genuine friendship thing...I have seen forums which attack, rather than help.

I wake up each day feeling happy that I have a forum like this to go to...and I consider all here people of a good heart.

I am well aware that many will not like/understand me...that is the price of opinion.

But I am willing to pay for that...I value anyone who shares his opinion, whether popular or not.

Thanks again my friend!

Bernard

"A man has to stand for something, otherwise he'll fall for anything."

Don't know who to credit for this quote...but it's so true. If we didn't have opinions of our own, we'll jus be trying to buy everything that the salesmen and advertisements say is good.

just wanted to add that I meant no slight to rolex lovers.  rolex makes beautiful, solid watches (i love the prince quite a bit myself), and, while i've been around enough of the world to know i'm more fortunate than most, i'm not quite at the empyrean heights of my fellow aficianados, whose watches i admire and love vicariously. 

like you, bernard, once i buy, i don't really sell.  but here's an interesting point of comparison: chopard makes absolutely gorgeous watches in my view, and they are very good quality, yet their resale seems rather depressed.  so this is a case where the dollar vote in the after market doesn't match the artistry or the quality.  that's my thought on chopard, but there are other brands that people can plump for and make the same point.

cordially

chris

... at least if it involves criminal energy, a sharp, pointed object waved close to your nosetip, and the consequential state of being left in a foreign place with no valuables whatever in your possession. An different watch might not have sparked the unwanted attention of the gentleman kindly asking for the handover of your treasures ...

Regards,
Marcus

So what watch would be "undercover" enough to not get any unwanted attention but easy enough to liquidate in case of emergency in a foreign land?
That could be a thread maybe

No message body

Bernard, This message has been edited by sancerre on 2012-06-26 20:20:59

Because I open myself up, and I do it with risk.

That risk is to be hurt/misunderstood.

But...thepurists have NEVER let me down.

In fact, I think all of you have saved me from extreme bipolar attacks...and believe me...I know what it is like.

Thanks again all of you.

hmm....jus back from Tokyo, and at the airport, saw 3-4 Galantes...so anyone keen, can check that out

as for myself, after trying....realised not for me, could be becoz the size, and also the aesthetics feel..

thanks Bernard once again, for all the postings.

Trc

The Galante is highly volatile now, since last week.

The sbla series, with the simpler rose dial, in reddish black (blood), and the white rose models are made in 30 to 50 pcs per annum, and are being fought over by retailers. My source who is high up, has a problem to get my "diving Galante", and I am on a wait list, which is worse than my Panerai Bronzo wait list...ie..I may be left out.

The sna series and the high jewelry series, with diamonds etc..and the series with mother of pearl dial is easy to get.

The sbla series is sold at zero discount. Each top selling store/retailer is allowed only one sbla watch. And more sna and other Galantes.

Also, I totally agree, the watch reminds me of Vianney's camera watch for Goldpfeil...which was named the ugliest watch ever made...so funny.

Only time will tell. A good example was that I once thought that the Omega Seamaster pro chronograph would be the most beautiful watch made, and that it will be centuries till another can "match" its beauty...man was I sooooo wrong.

It's at the watch shop near to the restaurants. They have credor as well, FYI 

if the brand was not on the watch and see if they would buy it solely based on design, finishing etc.

cheers

PAt

It may fly off the shelves. Chuckles.

Which model u keen to find out....

Bernard

Are you recommending that Galente or others?

NT

I was really seduced by its powerful design. The Galante? Well, not my cup of tea as you know Bernard.



Fx

Bernard -

... and reassuring that the market in fake Rolex hasn't eaten into that Rolex=cash equation too badly.

A