Comments:
An unpleasant experience
As a fan of the brand, I have always appreciated its unpretentious image and innovation, both before and after the brand's decision to focus its efforts back to its roots after a long and successful venture in the realm of haute horology.
However, in recent months I have been dismayed by the way a few issues have been handled by their post sales teams which are in stark contrast to my experience with them earlier.
First, when my forged carbon V4 had to return to the factory for a small repair, its return to me was improperly handled and the follow up and communications left a lot to be desired. And even after the incident, I happened to come across a titanium version of the V4 at a local TH boutique and out of curiosity, I went in, tried it on and was pleasantly surprised when I was offered a tremendous deal on it. The deal was simply too good to pass on, plus the boutique's very good service has impressed me greatly so I made the purchase.
Because the older V4s come with a strap that fixes the angle at which it attaches to the case, it causes the deployant to press on the wrist uncomfortably, so I had decided to replace the OEM strap with an aftermarket one. This was when I discovered that the watch would not pass even as a NOS, let alone a brand new piece which I had paid for. As can be seen in the pictures below, the inside of all four lugs have severe scratches and because of this, I took a closer look at the watch with a loupe and discovered that in addition to the scratches, there are two dings and three more scratches on the case back and one of the corners of the case is dented not sharp.
Subsequently I relayed the information back to the boutique manager, who has been extremely helpful all along, and after her investigation on the history of the watch, I was informed that since the watch has been on display at various boutiques since it was first delivered to the boutique in 2011 as well as to an AD on an exhibition, a few strap changes have been done over the years and it has gone back to Switzerland for routine checks every three years. She suspected that those dings, dents and scratches were left on the watch during those strap changes and services.
Being a hobbyist for over two decades, based on my experience there is no way those marks could have been left there if the strap changes and services were carried out professionally. Actually, even if I were to be the one doing the strap changes, I reckon it would have taken me probably twenty strap changes before those lugs would be so scratched, so I have doubts about how those marks were left there although I do believe that the boutique manager did share with me what she has been informed.
I was told that she has communicated all the information to her superiors but she has not been given any response or instruction on how to resolve the issue. This is consistent with my experience in recent months on the service mishandling of my other V4 so I was not surprised when I was informed that nobody upstairs seemed to care enough to respond.
This is certainly very discouraging as I have observed that when it comes to post sales servicing situations where they encounter issues that require efforts to resolve, they have been poorly handled. They were always good when things went well but the true test of post sales service occurs when there are difficult situations to resolve.
I will keep you all posted on any further feedback I get from the brand.
Ouch!! I too wud have trouble paying retail for it. NOS == Nicked Old Stock [nt]
No message body
You have all the right to complain and i think they need to give you a full service from the factory to make the watch back to NOS .
These kind of problems isnt nice and good for the brand , if it happens a few times with me i would sell them and turn my back at the brand
Well if it was the tremendous deal...
there is normally a reason why... but there seem to be a lot of scratches from strap changes which is unusual as even a demo piece would not have the strap change out that often.
If it was sold as seen rather than them selling it as a new watch, I guess its tough. However, I am sure that as you say the staff at the AD are super helpful that they will sort something out for you, do you think they can just be polished out?
Good luck!
Andrew
the issue
is that it was sold to me as a new watch, of course, not as NOS or demo piece. it was only after I saw the scratches at home while trying to change straps that I went back to the boutique to enquire about its history.
I am sure they can have the scratches polished out but that is not the point - I bought a new watch for immediate enjoyment not a defected watch that requires an overhaul right after I bought it...and it is not an AD...it is a Tag Heuer boutique owned and operated by LVMH.
I am sure they can have the scratches polished out but that is not the point - I bought a new watch for immediate enjoyment not a defected watch that requires an overhaul right after I bought it...and it is not an AD...it is a Tag Heuer boutique owned and operated by LVMH.
Well I am sure they will look after you then!
Its unusual as brand boutiques do not normally heavily discount pieces. Let us know how you get on and great collection BTW!
Cheers
Andrew
Cheers
Andrew
fingers crossed
yes I understand the discount is unusual for brand boutiques but in this case they have a good reason, as TH has essentially exited from he high horology segment so. Without further marketing, I reckon they will have a hard time moving the rest of their V4s thus the discount I suppose.
False representation has given you a major legal advantage – stop pussyfooting around and simply return it for a full refund. Any hassles, involve your card provider, assuming you didn’t purchase with cash.
Why put yourself through this rigmarole? Just get rid of the problem now rather than let it drag on until it’s too late.
If you don’t know them already, get very familiar with your local consumers laws, and exercise them.
You could probably buy the same one ex-demo or pre-owned, and it’d be in a better state, not mention cheaper still.
If you don’t know them already, get very familiar with your local consumers laws, and exercise them.
You could probably buy the same one ex-demo or pre-owned, and it’d be in a better state, not mention cheaper still.
I think
if I wanted a refund I am entitled to one based on local laws, but it is not my intention to get a full refund nor do I want to put undue stress on the store manager who has been very helpful and apologetic all along. And I am sure if I were to ask for a full refund they would not entertain based on how they have been handling the issue so far. This is why I wanted to see if she can get some sort of resolution proposal from the brand's management but so far her cry for instruction seems to have fallen on deaf ears. and I would know because I have communicated directly with the brand's senior management on other subjects on other occasions and my impression was that communications with them were smooth and timely when they involved pleasantries but when a problem needed resolution or escalation, they would retreat to the background and communication would suddenly become slow or sometimes they would even disappear. I can name names but I don't want to do that at this point in time but even if I did, I don't think they would care.
There is no undue stress placed upon the store’s manager in you exercising your rights as a consumer – she will have dealt with it many times before, and is simply part of her daily life.
By your own admission, and evidenced already, there doesn’t seem to be any interest in getting this resolved, at least not with any sense of urgency, so again I’ll ask a plain and simple question… Why bother wasting your time?
No brand is worth bothering with if you need to spend time cajoling and pleading with them to do the right thing – they either do it with minimal hassle/inconvenience or they don’t, in which case you walk away, never to darken their doorstep again.
Anything else is tantamount to being a glutton for punishment.
No brand is worth bothering with if you need to spend time cajoling and pleading with them to do the right thing – they either do it with minimal hassle/inconvenience or they don’t, in which case you walk away, never to darken their doorstep again.
Anything else is tantamount to being a glutton for punishment.
Very common, even in top tier brand boutiques...
There's a reason why the store employees always take the watches to the back to affix a new strap. They don't want you to see them scratch the watch with the screwdriver. The ones who do it
Most salespeople at these stores are eager to get back onto the sales floor and get another potential sale. They don't take the time to be trained on how to do even minor things such as strap changes. Furthermore, even with the lack of training, damage can be avoided if one was extremely patient and careful. Well, guess again, that's not usually the case.
I want you to know, the most highly respected jewelers with 100 year histories (I'm reluctant to name them by name but I assure you, every store is like this) have numerous employees on their staff who cannot learn how to set a perpetual calendar correctly. And despite that, these dastardly employees refuse to consult the manual that comes with the watch.
I know a person who didn't want to change his own straps. He was a surgeon, with steady hands, and empowered with the metal tools that could scratch the case with one wrong move. So he entrusted the jewelry store employee to change them on his behalf. I later brought him aside and told him to avoid doing so in the future. I can only hope he heeded my warning.
Single brand boutique, multi-brand jewelry store, high end brand, low end brand, you have a very high chance of running into problems.
Buying a watch with a bracelet? 90% of the time, the employee will use the wrong width screwdriver to adjust your bracelet, look for scratches on your screws.
Your best chance is if the store has a real watchmaker on site who does the operation himself. Short of this, caveat emptor!
Passionate salespeople? Bull. Pursuit of perfection? Not something seen commonly in the retail industry. Not impossible, but a true rarity.
Interesting...
To read that, Patrick. I know of three exceptions locally - at the local Chopard Boutique the watch always gets brought to a watch maker for the change; at Breitling they bring out the tools and do it in front of you (was impressed) - and they truly seem to be properly trained; and Last but not least, the local jeweller that is a Grand Seiko AD automatically sends you to his service department for strap changes, where you can observe the watch makers doing it.
But I fully agree, more an exception than the rule.
But I fully agree, more an exception than the rule.
Wow! I'm not sure I can think of three exceptions...
Some Tourbillon stores have an in-house watchmaker, so it would make sense that such a request is performed by a watchmaker.
I have one local store in the suburbs of San Francisco that I know keeps a Rolex and a Patek Philippe watch maker on the books five days a week each. So there's a good chance they'll have someone who can do it and do it well.
But I can tell you, the biggest stores that I can think of in California... Big names, multi-chain stores, I don't think they'd do a strap change competently. And It's not for certain that an employee would care enough to ask you to come back when the qualified individual could do it. They might just do it themselves without particular care nor caution.
I do think it's a culture issue. A lot of people just don't take it seriously enough.
But in Germany, Japan, Switzerland, and other countries where there is a culture of being "cautious" I do think that the employees would be more careful. However, even a careful employee who doesn't have sufficient experience may not have sufficient expertise to not damage the watch in a strap change. Would that employee realize his/her limitation in time?
There is strictly no strap changes at Chopard...
When the watch maker is not in. Which is reassuring 
Interestingly, I was at a local store which was having a big sale night for collectors in town
I bought my thin little UN dress watch (on strap) and was happily playing with it while sipping some champagne, and the store manager (who I knew well) sidled over, grabbed my arm, and guided me to the "watchmaker's bench".
She sat me down, set two boxes down and said "Please do these straps and one bracelet? I'll make it worth your while." My wife was so amused she took some pictures.
After doing her 3 watches (or 4), I realized I didn't like my watch on the brown strap so moved it to a black glossy one which she kindly offered.
At least if I scratch it up myself I have no one to blame but me! So I say, No offense intended, but DON'T TRUST THE WATCH DEALER IF YOU CAN'T WATCH THEM DO THE WORK.
Cazalea
I agree
which is why most of the time I do strap changes myself, which to be honest, is not that difficult. I actually asked with a relatively high priced piece like the V4, whether the strap changes were done by their service centre and the store manager honestly told me that store staff would perform the strap changes onsite by store sales, so that would probably explain the scratches. But still, it is unbelievable how badly they were scratched.
Unbelievable and inexcusable...
You have to remember... That store staff doesn't care that much. And if that specific watch has "been around the block" the store has even less fear of any "minor scratches" in a place where the customer would be unlikely to notice.
I am not a.................
professional watch strap changer guy, but even I do not leave scratches on my watches when changing straps. Looks like someone didn't care, didn't know how, or probably both.
Happened to me when I bought a Panerai from the Beverly Hills Boutique
back in 2007. They sent me a display mode of a PAM 112 with tons of scratches and dings that there was no way they could NOT have known it was not brand new.
I made so much of a stink about it with them that they refunded my money. That may seem the right thing to do and it was but you have to realize the boutique policy is no refunds, only store credit. Their error was so egregious they had no recourse but to give me my money back especially when they couldn't guarantee when another 112 would be available (this was back when Panerai was so popular that most models were never in stock, but now you can pretty much get any model you want such is their fall from collector popularity).
Unpleasent indeed, but...
this is around 10x magnified!
Apparently you did not see it in the shop.
Most of the scratches are on the inside - so not to be seen if a strap is attached. But I know, still annoying...
If you change straps: How would you avoid scratches?? Basically the procedure is metal moving on metal - depending on the pressure of the springs in the bars...
Apparently you did not see it in the shop.
Most of the scratches are on the inside - so not to be seen if a strap is attached. But I know, still annoying...
If you change straps: How would you avoid scratches?? Basically the procedure is metal moving on metal - depending on the pressure of the springs in the bars...
sure
it is magnified for clarity but trust me, you.can see them with your naked eyes and the amount and severity of scratches is alarming. I am no professional but for me to put so many deep scratches on the lugs I would have to have been drunk and not give a rats arse about my watch...
OUCH
Thank you GCTime for sharing your pain. I would also be pissed.
Thank you all for sharing your experience and even mentioning the brand and the dealer/shop.
IMHO sharing the truth and experience among friends are so valuable to protect each other.
Sad to hear, but this is the problem with the industry, many brands are excellent before service, but after service things can happen because people arn't careful. I've had excellent
service from LVMH service centers (the authorized service centers for Tag, Fendi etc.), Rolex, and Vacheron, while Omega has let me down so much in service that I stopped going to them for servicing and I'm trying to resist adding any new Omegas into the collection. We are all dependant on the company actually performing the service properly, re-installing everything and having it work. I would much rather a company invest more on servicing timepieces and the proper training for people who service/handle them and customer relations while doing it all properly. There are many stories like yours out on the net and so many owners from various brands have had these experiences. We put our faith in the "experts" only to notice that the big bucks we pay is for unacceptable service.
precisely how i feel
actually in this instance I feel more betrayed than I otherwise would have had the brand been less welcoming and pleasant in communicating wth me on pleasantries on previous occasions. I had developed the impression that they were to be trusted but then I discovered through two recent incidents that when they had to resolve issues they behaved quite differently.
Did I mention that my V4 was returned to me without any packaging after service and my warranty card was wrinkled and given back to me just like that. No envelopes, no service receipt, nothing to hold the watch. It was unbelievable esp for a V4 which one would assume they would take a bit of care in handling.
Did I mention that my V4 was returned to me without any packaging after service and my warranty card was wrinkled and given back to me just like that. No envelopes, no service receipt, nothing to hold the watch. It was unbelievable esp for a V4 which one would assume they would take a bit of care in handling.