Rolex

I have done a search about and found some interesting threads on the above watch, 727 manual movement etc, but quite interested in other views:-

Firstly anyone know what sort of value a mid eighties piece would of cost when new?

Secondly, roughly how many were produced, what is the reason why they have become so popular and have increased so much in value, is it because it was the last rolex manual movement>

Thirdly, how high can the prices continue to climb?...seems 30k euros for a minty with papers is par for the course currently, what is it that has increased this price so much over 25 years or so?

I managed to pick one up, a 1986 box & papers, fairly mint, and I am wondering if these have topped out now, or if fellow forum members can see that they will continue on an upward slope....wish I had bought a few back in the early 80's and stuck them under my bed!

Around 1984, the list price for a steel Daytona in the United States was $1,100 USD.  At around the same time a Submariner was $1,350 and a GMT Master was around $1,325.  Back then these watches were heavily discounted.  You could walk into any authorized dealer and get a Sub or GMT in SS and they would give you a 25% discount.  I mistakenly chose a new GMT in October 1984 rather than getting a Daytona for a bargain price.  Even sales men would say, Rolex is known for its perpetual/self winding movements, no one wants a manual wind.   As has been written many times in the past, the Daytonas really were not very popular until Italian collectors took an interest in these watches sometime in the mid to late 80s.  One dealer told me, back in the late 70s/early 1980s they couldn't give Daytonas and Explorer IIs away...people wanted Subs and GMTs.

The rest is irrelevant, IMO, and would require a crystal ball to answer.

Best,

Nicolas.

but it looks great on your wrist

J

Yes Amanico I indeed am happy with it, but it is not 'wrong' to ask questions and try to do a bit of research on such a piece, is that not what these forums are about? It is very dismissive when someone is trying to research something to just come out with 'if your happy and it looks good then end of story'. I am sure as many watch collectors/enthusiasts do, we seek knowledge, and if a good investment is also something that is attractive as well as a nice watch then great and I also like to seek knowledge as most watch buffs do.

Thanks for the other post on the values etc back in 1986, even more intrigued now as to the incredible price increase on these from the mid 80's to current day, I mean $1000 - $40/50k in 25 years is quite a return!...seems even stranger when they were so unloved back then.

I am also qutie intruged by the numbers produced. ie how many with the red daytona on the dial etc....

I am finding this 'vintage' rolex thing extremely interesting to look into, hence the questions...anyone got any good recomendations for sources of info?...website/book or whatever

cheers

Hi Chris,

I think the thing about value is that on this forum, the "value" of a watch is seen first and foremost as its intrinsic pleasure. By that, I mean its aesthetic beauty, its horological complications, its history, its quirkiness, innovation. It is these pleasures that drive most of the people on this forum. The monetary value of a watch is very much secondary to most people on this forum because very few see watches as investment. It is a different mentality. What Amanico was essentially saying is that if you love a watch, and truly adore the idea of wearing it, then you should pray that it is not rare, not valuable and nobody else wants it....the value to you is not a monetary one but one about pleasure.

However, you do raise an interesting question about monetary value and investment issues. If you buy a watch, you want a "return" from that watch. However, what I think Amanico is suggesting is that he would view its "return" in the form of the pleasure it gives him to wear it. It is a non-monetary return, if you like. I think most people on this specific forum would view it like that too.

I am sure that others will have their views too, but for the large part I think people who are passionate about watch collecting tend to view a watch's monetary return as quite low down the pecking order of factors that are attractive to them. If you like, it is the cherry on the icing on the cake. I buy the cake not for the cherry, but for the cake.

If you want to learn more about the monetary investment potential of specific watches, then you are 100% entitled to do so. I am guessing that this specific forum is NOT the place where that type of information is examined ...or particularly valued to any major extent.

Apologies if I phrased my questions incorretly, I am not really concerned about the value, dont dwell on that Baron, I was asking/am asking about the history of such pieces and their rise in value as a measure of the popularity and why this has happened..I am not asking/talking about investment value particularly, I am on this forum asking the knowledgable ones about such a piece and its reaons for being, this is a watch forum right?

I am pretty new to rolex and am very interested in finding out more, I ask the question and to be honest found Amanico's repsonse a bit dismmissive, but I can see if he thought I was purely concerned about the investment return then maybe it riled him a tad, but you must understand that I am posting to try & find out more info in general, to me quite an obvious question to ask how many were made, why so popular etc, its called historic research, doesnt really need a 'all that matters is it looks good and you like it' answer, very flippant IMHO when someone is trying to gleen info.

Second post was a very informative & interesting post, that I thank the poster for, its amazing the turn around from a heavily discounted piece to such a high value piece in a relatively short period of time, a mechanism I would like to understand. For example the pre Vendome Panerai's with the rolex movements are very sought after, I understand that, as I used to collect Panerai's and found the forum here an excellent place for gaining such knowledge, like wise the richard mIlle forum is the same. Was rather hoping that the rolex forum may have the same stream of knowledge.

Sorry maybe its just me, I have reread my original post which I still find to be qutie a genuine request for info, and maybe I shouldnt be so so sensitive, I just found Amanico's comment a litle pointless & ever so slightly rude!..

This is one of the best forums. I collect mainly Rolex and yes there are other Rolex-specific forums but I find myself on this one more than any other... and the resident experts are here in abundance. For knowledge....this is a good place to ask questions.

However, do understand that when a forum becomes..."Is this watch a good investment" type of place, it can become boring. I am not saying that you asked that question at all, but when Amanico argues that "value" is what you see in a watch (and not its money value), then it will echo with most on this forum. And trying to disentangle what does or does not make a watch appreciate the way that the Daytona has is not really a question that is that interesting. The fact is, just like any investment, it is always easy to understand post ante why something has gone up in value, but it is almost impossible to see that beforehand. Same is true for the Daytona. When they were first made, nobody liked them. In relative terms, not that many were made. But then Paul Newman and the Italians came along and suddenly the vintage Dayto became very very cool. Then more and more celebs embraced them....and bang, it becomes the watch everyone wants.... low supply, high demand....$30k. What made it happen as it did? Who knows really. But also, while I like the history of why it became popular, I don't really look at it in terms of how its monetary price has evolved. I find that part of its history of low-order importance in determining if i want to buy one. Does that make sense?

Yes it makes perfect sense Baron, I suppose the most interesting part of the question I am asking really is as to the rarity of the 'big red' ...rarity is obviously directly related to value wether we like it or not, but yes the value and possible continued increase or decrease is very secondary to my decision to buy one,  i saw one and thought it be be styled as pretty much the perfect chronograph for me...I have seen other rolex models with the 'doouble red' written etc and how sought after they are, sea dwellers etc, and also the ex army rolex's seem to be very sought after.... really I am just embarking on my investigations into rolex and am indeed becoming quite intrigued by the variations on the models an collectability of many, to the extent I think I shall seek out a decent book to study further, so any recommendations would be gratefully received.

I do think personally the Daytona 6263 has aged extremely well, and is actually more stylish today than the current daytona's, but maybe thats just me gettng to a certain age, and starting to appreciate retro things!

Is there anyway to establish quantities of particular rolex models produced?, I already have scoured this forum and found interesting reading on the paul newmans/tropical dials/ pusher types etc etc, but really want to continue to delve deeper into this fascinating topic

I bet even Rolex don't have firm numbers for that! Likewise with the variation Paul Newman dial...nobody really knows numbers. People make educated guesses. 6262, for example, was only in production for a very short time...makes sense that not many were made....

There are several books....but having bought many, I am always left a little disappointed in them. There is, though, a good one on Daytonas. Rolex Daytona - a legend is born. I like this book a lot and it is an excellent reference on vintage Daytos.

I do hear you on vintage .... there is something magical about the vintage Rolex.

And at the end, you just doscover that it is impossible to know them...

That is the fun of it.

Best,

Nicolas.

Only ETA movements.

The Panerais which housed a Rolex Cortebert movement were some Vintage ones, the others housed Angelus movement.

And they weren't always sought after believe me!

Best,

Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-06-24 12:41:03

I would be happier to see what details on this Dayto makes you so happy with it, what pleases you so much about this watch.

Discussing Value is a bit irrelevant, and yes, I should have elaborated more.

So here we are:

Let me take an example: I bought a Red Sub box andf papers in 2006. I paid the top of the evaluation of the moment for it, while, in 1972, the retail was 470 USD, and I know that detal because the price sticker is still on the box... .

Was I disturbed by such an inflation? No. I bought the watch, because I was very happy with ( and still am, by the way ).

I wouldn't even consider paynig such an amount of money for a watch I don't like, just to own a watch I wouldn't wear, just to say " I got it ".

And to be clear, I'm not stating it is your case, just for you to not misunderstand my words.

Why there was such an inflation on this model and not on others?

Just because of the demand / offer market law, just for that, as for any other goods, values...

when I say it is a bit irrelevant, it is because your watch may even raise in value, it may also see its value going down, you never know, it is all about the " market " rule.

That is why I prefer focusing on Horological discussions, than on " Value / invesntment " discussions.

Hope I made my point clearer, without any bad intentions.

Best,

Nicolas.

No message body

enjoy it, its a classic.

Will it be an investment........depends on the what an 8 year old thinks of it...

Imran

Nicolas, I understand and apologise if I reacted a little too quickly to your earlier comment, thanks for explaining.

What do I like about the 6263 big red?....its just so right to me, the raised hour markers, the splash of red on the dial, the doomed cyrstal, the shape of the case...overall it just sort of 'twinkles' when you look at it. Oh and I love the nice loud ticking, always been a sucker for a loud tick, its sort of comforting to me for some reason!.

 I find it so hard to believe that this model was so unpopular back in the 70's/80's.Really like it, I am just going to have to ensure it doesnt start me off on a collecting rolex binge....I can see how easy it would be to get pulled into obsessing over these pieces!

thanks chaps, good info indeed

My bad on the rolex & panerai movements....my bad, thanks for correcting, something else ive learned then!

Yes, it was unpopular in the 70ies, such as the Freccione, and now, you see...

The only problem is that you " put your foot " on an addictive field.

But it is so good....

Best,

Nicolas.

What led me into the daytona was I firstly impulse bought a new one, then I fell in love with the 'old' one!. Took a couple of pics of them side by side for comparision....funny how much bigger the new dayto looks dial wise, yet they more or less wear the same....