Rolex

We very often post topics about the Military Submariners or the Comex, as Legendary Rolex Watches.

Of course, they deserve such posts, and admiration, but if History makes these watches so exciting, there is another contender to consider, the Tudor Submariner.

Our Good Old Dr Strong made a review about them, to give them the Justice and the place they deserve, and I highly recommend you to read it, if it is not already done:

rolex.watchprosite.com

Here, I will focuse on one model, the Ref 94010, which was the latest Tudor Submariner used by the French Marine, from 1975 to 1983.

This reference, as you know, came with 2 different blue dials.

The round and triangular indexes:



Or the Snow Flakes:



I was recently seduced by this reference, and I really wonder why it was not an older love.

If you think about it, I don't see why the Military Rolex are much more prestigious than the Military Tudor.

The movement?

Well, the Rolex have an in house movement, indeed, while the Tudor house an ETA automatic movement, the Cal 2776, offering an hacking second, and a power reserve of 38 hours.

The ETA is extremely reliable and accurate, as well as its Rolex contender, and I don't see it as a " poor man's choice ".

The Finish?

The Tudor and the Rolex share a lot of common points, such as the case, the crown, the case back, and to make it short, only the movement, and the layout of the dial and hands make the difference.





As for the dial, the snow flakes seems to have a conventional finish, except its color and the original square shape of the indexes and hour / second hand, while the other dial, I mean, with the round indexes, seems to receive a superior finish, a kind of laquered or enameled finish, instead of the " Snow Flakes " matt blue dial.

So, once again, I don't see the finish as a relevant point to explain the difference in prestige between Military Rolex and Tudor.

No, in fact, I much see a psychologic factor, due to the name...Rolex is and will always be Rolex, while Tudor has to be more known, its history, the quality of the Tudor watches.

But the History of the Tudor Military watches- which were truely used as toolwatches- is not less prestigious than the History of the Comex or the Military Rolex watches, as we'll see later.

So, may a kind of snobism explain the difference?



Among these 2 Ref 94010, I decided to go for the ...



Snow Flakes!

It appeared to me that the round and triangular indexes, although beautiful, very elegant, were also a bit too close to its Sister, the Rolex Submariner .

The Snow Flakes give a total different look, more original, more " macho ", " bad boy ", masculine, which perfectly makes echo to the use of this watch.



It is funny how a watch can change with such small details as a Blue dial and differently shaped indexes...

Here, the TUDOR M.N with the famous 5508...A Myth to come versus a Myth?



You still have, of course the classic and timeless Submariner case, strong and elegant, and the big crown you can find on the modern Subs, but the blue dial and these strange indexes and hands reinforce the strength of this watch.

The domed plexy adds some warmth and sweetness to this brutal watch.

The creamy indexes contrast with the blue matt dial, in a very appealing way.





Of course, as on the the Comex, you have, on the case back, a number,which is not a serial number, but which indicates the year of the dotation.

The " Magic Number ":



As you can see on the background used for these pcitures, the watch came with the " Marine Nationale " Register, with all the references of the Military Tudor ( and not only Tudor ) watches which were serviced.

But there was also another kind of paper, smaller, which was delivered when the watch was decommissioned ( Sorry, don't know who to credit for this picture )



My Tudor was used by the ENSM which stands for " Ecole de Navigation Sous Marine ", created in 1916, whose mission is to insure the formation and the training of the Military Submariners Crews.

Here the Logo used by this School ":



( Informations and picture taken from the French Ministery of Defense, in French, sadly ) :

www.defense.gouv.fr

Other Tudor watches with the same reference ( or different ) were used by the Prestigious Elite Corps Commando Hubert, the Groupe De Plongeurs Démineurs, the Saint Mandrier Base Aeronautiqe Navale, the Mine Hunter LYRE, and some others...

So, yes, these Tudor have a real History!

As every Submariner, it is a very pleasant watch to wear, and if you add the blue dial and bezel, and the History behind, you just have a ...Winner.



Best to All,

Nicolas

And I really wonder if I won't end with both of them...

Best, my friend.

Nicolas

I don't see this vintage in any way inferior to a submariner. It's a tough toolwatch that really conforms to all a diver will want, and i find the hour hand design incredibly legible.

Vintages are like art, appreciated out of context and composition. The context part is strong, with it's affinity to the military, and the composition, well, only lacking in terms of the ETA movement. Were this to house a Rolex movement then, wow, the value might be on par with the vintage subs.

Tudor has to forge a strong brand identity and look to it's roots. I feel that it's present brand direction and message is diluting the brand's strong history and it should be marketed as a strong subset of the Rolex group, instead of shunning it's affiliation. While the vintage subs can be compared to the porsche 64, the Tudor Sub is like the little sister, the beetle. So perhaps, looking towards the successful differenciation and association of Porsche-Volkwaagen will help.

 

 

Well, I don't know Tudor enough to have a definitive point of view on their modern production.

But the more I dig into the past of this brand, the more I appreciate some of their products, like this Tudor MN, or some awesome non crownguard Subs, too.

The only point I disagree a bit is about the ETA movement.

It seems very reliable and damn accurate, to me.

Will have to learn more about this movement.

Best, and thanks for this very well written input.

Nicolas

And fantastic posts elicit passionate replies.Agree abt ETA,it was probably advanced in that era and context.Great post, Nic!

for sure.....but....

as I already told you, my choice would have been the other (round) one.....

However I do like the creamy indexes... and you are right... the snow flakes has a harder look and more unusual....
the round a softer/elegant look ..... however... you cannot go wrong with either watch....

I do share your appreciation of the vintage Tudor watches but I am skeptic on their current new line.....

Thanks for posting such an informative post my friend....

Enjoy it

Cheers

But I have to have a deeper view on them.

Look, I didn't pay attention to these Vintage marvels till...Recently, I have to admit.

I fear I will end with both of these MNs...

Best, my friend.

Nicolas

is my wish my friend....

I think that you should....

Cheers

No message body

Tudor at its best: Rolex, with a twist ;-)

         Cheers

                 Jeff

No message body

This 'blue' is to die for ... nice WS also ... .

thanks Nicolas

filip

No message body

I'm glad you got the Snow Flake, I much prefer that to the Mercedes hands.

I actually prefer the MN Tudors to many of the Rolex issued watches. They are somehow more...appropriate (?) for the purpose. The fact that they are less recognised, and recognisable, also appeals.

Apart from the bracelet, I've only ever seen these on either G10s (NATOs) which doesn't seem right for a MN Watch or on very non-military leather straps. Do you know what strap was used?

Another great watch, Nico, congratulations.

 

This message has been edited by BDLJ on 2010-01-12 14:49:37

But now that you asked, I will make some searches to try to find something about this.

As for this MN, you said it perfectly, these are the reasons why, instinctively, I went for this one.

But the other has its charm...too.

Best, my friend.

Nicolas

 

It is my understanding that these Tudors, like many MN watches, were often worn on what is known as a "Nageurs de combat" strap, made out of the elastic used on parachute straps.  They were made by the servicemen themselves.  You can still buy them from a military surplus shop in Paris but my contact over there just bought me the last 5 and I don't know when they will be restocking, if at all. 

(This is my first post on this forum and I'm having difficulty posting photos.  My particular interest is in military watches so I was delighted to see this thread).

I believe that MN watches were also worn on a black braided tropical strap, which is also available if you hunt around although the Nageur strap is more secure.

Some (about 30%?) were on bracelets - perhaps those ones were reserved for the more senior officers?

I like the blue snowflake but prefer the black MN version myself.

I hope this helps.

Regards

Jon'.

 

 

 

Will try to get an original one.

I knew about the bracelet, but I had doubts about the straps.

Now, I know...



Welcome here, by the way!

Looking forward to hear more from you,

Best,

Nicolas

Thank you for the welcome Nicolas.  I will ask my friend in Paris to find out when the shop will have more Nageur straps in stock and if you want one, I'm sure I can twist his arm to help. 

By the way, that Register looks very interesting - I would like to see a copy to find my other MN watches - do you know where I could obtain one?

Regards

Jon'.

 

Thanks a lot!

As for the Register, please PM me when the PMs will still work, which will take a few days...

Best,

Nicolas

Fantastic watch!!! Enjoy!!!

Snowflake rules!!! ANd they have seen history...

Big congrats!!!

Now you need some of those .... LOOOL! ready to go... ;-)













Some MN...

Soon...

I'm hunting the right Depth Gauge and Compass for this one.

If I can get a torch and a knife...

Impressive pics, my friend.

Do you always manage to get all the " environment " of each watch you hunt?

That's a great habit!

Best,

Nicolas

Great hunt for you! It's real coooooool.... and rarrrrreeeeeeeeee stuff!
As it was never for sale. And like the suite from MN i had... was often cut loose on missions... so rare to get.

But indeed... it's real great to have that for those special watches!

Only if i could find some SBS stuff...

Best,

Bernhard

And thanks for this nice and great post!.

This watch is really nice, strong and has a true history behind.... what more??

The snowflake version is awesome, and yours is in a really great and nice condition!

Congrats again, hermano

Emilio

You would have seen it in the flesh!

Thanks for your very nice words, Hermano.

Much appreciated.

Nicolas

...With a really nice Tudor at its best.

Tudor might be the "little sister", but for sure is a watchbrand with its own genetics and history

Thankyou for sharing, and congratulations on this really nice "bluish watch" Nicolas

 

Cheers

Hans

And I can tell you that the more I see and wear it, the more I love it.

A very special watch, due to its original look.

Thanks for your nice comment, Hans.

Best,

Nicolas

I've never seen this one, but I sure like it.  The markers and hands are great.  Congrats!

Jeff

Some pieces which are not Military.

This is not a rare version, but a pretty cool one, indeed.

Yes, a watch to discover or re discover.

Thanks for your input.

Nicolas