Jaeger-LeCoultre

To say that the " Cross Hair " dial is a mystery is an euphemism.

Most of the Geophysics we know are coming with this dial:



Applied 12 and 6, as well as 5 minutes index markers, available in gold ( Ref dial 8067 / 5 ) or in stainless steel ( Ref dial 8067 / 9 ).

Here, in a stainless steel Geophysic:



This dial has been drawed first, on the 13th of January... 1957. Let's keep in mind that the Ref case E 168 was in production as soon as 1958, till 1961.

This version is also well known because it features in some documents, booklets, catalogs, and advertisings.

As well as another Geophysic, the Deluxe, Ref case 2985, which is shown in the Geophysic Brochure, in production for two years, only ( 1958-1959 ) for a total of 103 pieces.

The technical document of the dial ( Ref 8068 / 1 ) first drawed on the 13th of December 1957.



The Geophysic De Luxe:



Now, let's examine the most mysterious of the Geophysics, the " Cross Hair " dials.

We saw a few Geophysic using this dial, mostly in stainless steel, and only twice in colored gold.

I've searched in all the catalogs of the era, from 1958 to 1961, and I didn't find any evidence of its existence.

Same outcome with the advertisings I could find. The only Geophysics I could find were those with the dial reference 8067 and 8068.

Which is strange, as on the few I could see, I noticed that the case was the same ( E 168 ) than the one coming with the dial reference 8067, and pictured below:









And the inimitable case back:



The Yellow Gold Geophysic " Cross Hair " Dial, which is, as the stainless steel version, the property of the Heritage Gallery, and shown in the book " La Grande Maison ":



I contacted the Heritage Gallery and asked them if they found something in their documents, advertisings, catalogs, brochures.... They came back to me with the same negative outcome... Well, almost, as they found one interesting information, a technical drawing of this dial...

Let me introduce you the mighty 8085 ( its reference dial ) :



I started to wonder, before seeing this drawing, if this dial was not a service dial, which would explain that it is not featured in any " communication " document, but a detail tends to demonstrate that it is not the case.

Indeed, if you refer to the date of the initial drawing, it is written 14th of January 1958. A service dial would have probably been produced later.

The Heritage Gallery showed me something very interesting, a new old stock Cross Hair Dial!

As you can see, the conception of the dial is the same than the ref 8067, with this " skirt ", the same finish, made of soft swedish iron ( for amagnetic purposes ), only the design of the " face " of the dial changes.

The dial side:



The hidden side:



The diameter of the dials ref 8085 and 8067 is the same: 2, 85 cm. While the dial of the Geophysic De Luxe is a tad bigger: 3 cm, when its case is one millimete smaller ( 34 mm ).

Let's remind, too, that the only Geophysic which is not amagnetic is the De Luxe, but all three are Chronometers.

To be precise and complete, the Cross Hair dials came in stainless steel with the reference dial 8085/ 9, and in yellow gols, with the reference 8085/ 5.

The Heritage Gallery doesn't have track of the number of Geophysic Cross Hair made, which means that they are included in the production of the E 168 ( 1038 in stainless steel, 222 in yellow gold ), without any other precision.

We can only guess, from what we have seen during these years of watch collecting, that the Cross Hair is much less " common " than the " normal " Geophysic.

Best,

Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2013-09-19 22:44:01 This message has been edited by amanico on 2013-09-23 03:21:00

But, I do love the cross hair look

No message body

Which is not simple.

Trying to guess the Future is more problematic.



Best, my friend.

Nicolas

While info is lacking, at least it lead you to the 8085 reference photo chart.  When others read this, hopefully someone can come out and provide a little bit more.  Thanks for exploring this mystery Nico.

-MW

And I hope some will comes out from the wood, and share some additional informations, too!

Best, Ming.

Nicolas

Hi Nico,

with this cross hair dial, came in my mind more than once...

This dial is simply eye catching.

Best, Jérôme.

Nicolas

The journey to realize, find, share and wear vintage watches are really what most vintage watch lovers enjoy. Thanks again for sharing about iconic pieces with interesting information again.

Really huge.

Thanks for your kind words, my dear Terence.

Nicolas

... cross hair has been also most used in other brands, e.g. Omega and UG. but this is the most charming one!

thanks for sharing such interesting history, Nico.

stefan

pure, odd, simple, sophisticated ..... just gorgeous!

Very interesting and informative report. Thanks, Nicolas!

Oliver

Stunning watch and very interesting read, my friend!


Best
Blomman

Hi Nico,

I did read somewhere some time ago - unfortunately I cannot remember where and when - that what you call "Cross Hair" was actually a "Chronometer Cross".

JLC used the cross on some of it's Geophysics and the textile dial of the "funky" Ref. 24000 Chronometer which you featured in another thread.

I cannot recall that the article I read elsewhere mentioned the meaning and use of the cross. Does anybody know?

Another thing I am curious about concerning JLC's Chronometers is that JLC seemingly did not print "Chronometre" on every Chronometer dial. Most of the ref. 24000 that are featured in the other thread do not have the imprint on the dial. The cataloge showing technical details the ref. 24000 as "Master Mariner" does not mention the Chronometer certification and the pictured watch does not have the imprint on the dial either. 24000s in other cataloges have the imprint. Does that mean that watches of the same reference which do not feature "Chronometre" on the dial were simply not certified as such? Or was the imprint used haphazardly?

Cheers,

Christian

You are right about the 24000 / 24001 / 24002: The Chronometer mention was written not on the dial, but on the case back:

Best, Nicolas

The E 329:

There were indeed several references that had the cross on their dial. But the use of the cross on not chronometric watches does not necessarily rule out the possibility that the cross originated on Chronometers - or does it? Just beeing curious.

 

Christian

The Geophysic first came with the " Cross Hair " dial... But we know that the Cross Hair dial came one year after the " regular " dial.

Passionate discussion!

Best,

Nicolas

No message body

that it was Mehltretter's article that I had in mind. That you for your efforts to nudge my memory, Nicolas! ;-)

I did notice that the watches in the thread had "Chronometre" engraved on their backs. But why do only some of the Ref. 24000 watches have the imprint on their dials too? Any educated guesses?

 

Christian

I always thought that the word Chronometer engraved on the case back was enough.

And made a relation with the Zenith Cal 135, which, on a few watches, didn't have the Chronometer mention, for a good reason: They were not! Not offcially certified by who you know.

But that is just a gues.

Best,

Nicolas, happy tohave this discussion with you.