Jaeger-LeCoultre

Last week, I was offered to make a test on one of my Vintage JLCs.

I had a long time thinking about which one I would submit to the test, and finally chose the Master Mariner Deep Sea.

The watch was serviced and restored by JLC, it was logical to complete it with an extract.

One week after, it was in my mail box!





Some thoughts:

1/ The extract from the archives is superbly presented in a nice folder cardboard.

2/ The document inside contains the main informations about your watch:

The number of the case and of the movement, the Reference of the case and of the movement, the main characteristics of the watch, the production date, the functions, and the name of the watch.

3/ Though, it is not a certificate of authenticity:

JLC is thinking about delivering a certificate of authenticity, too.

To fullfil this purpose, it will be necessary to send the watch to the Manufacture, for the experts to fully examine the watch.

Will the certificate be delivered with the mention of some minor problems, like replacement hands or bezel, I still don't know, and have to wait for an answer.

4/ It is a totally new service for the Manufacture.

Before, we had the possibility to contact the Vintage Dept by email to ask them some questions on our beloved treasures, and generally, an answer was given in a reasonnable time.

Still, I don't know if this possibility still exists, or if it is replaced by this new service.

A precision: An answer will be given in a maximum of 3 months from the payment of the fee ( 300 CHF, which is around 220 Euros, or 285 USD ) because only 2 experts are allowed to deliver such certificates, and they can be very busy at some periods of the year.

5/ It is pricey, indeed, but it brings something more to the time keeper which will be linked with the JLC patrimony.

This extract from the archives is a piece of JLC history, in my opinion, and it can add a value ( sentimental, mainly ) to your most beloved Vintage watches.

Personally, I would do it for some important pieces, such as the Polaris, the Geophysique, some Military Watches, the Deep Sea Alarms, some pocket watches or Clocks, but also on some of my dearest Vintage JLCs, like the Memovoxes.

I think JLC should go further, and work on the idea of a certificate of authenticity, as previously said, to enhance even more the link between Collectors and the Manufacture, and to feed its own history.

I would also add some more informations, as the location of the delivery, and some nice scans of the catalogs of the era, or ads, with a brief summary of the watch, like the number of pieces made and the years of production.



The first extract was delivered a few months ago, with the Geophysic " 1959 - 2009 " which was auctioned for a noble cause:



It is the beginning of the experience.

Let's wish the best for it!

I will, of course, keep you updated with the many questions we have, and the answers we're waiting for.

Nicolas
This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-07-28 00:11:10 This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-07-29 04:52:34 This message has been edited by amanico on 2010-07-30 11:45:17

I'm not particularly sold on the current "Extract" value proposition yet. The information given on the sample extracts we've seen is quite basic and easily obtained elsewhere. Certainly not the depth of information that I think most buyers would expect from a factory archive research. If the extract doesn't include enhanced information such as: sales agent delivery date & place, original sale price, model background info, authentication of watch and individual parts, production quantities, etc., the value of the extract probably doesn't justify the 300 CHF price tag (and round trip insured shipping) for me.

Considered from a marketing perspective, there are basically two classes of potential buyers: novices and advanced collectors. A novice has inherited a watch or just purchased a first JLC and wants to know a bit more about it. For these people, paying nearly $300 to get very basic info (without authentication) on a typically observed $500-$1,000 vintage JLC is going to be cost prohibitive. For an advanced collector who wants to know more about a scarce/rare model, the service also comes up a bit short. Paying $300 for an extract on a $20,000 Polaris is acceptable, but I want to know more than the basic info that I already have.

Another question: will this service extend to U.S.-market "LeCoultre" watches also?

JMHO,

Greg

I think JLC has to think about all these points, indeed.

As for an extension to LeCoultre watches, this is a thing I wonder, too.

It is something I asked to JLC.

Will have an answer when they're back from holidays, and will keep you updated, for sure!

Best,

Nicolas

Hey, that was quick! I thought they had closed the shop over the summer.

 

1/ I agree with you that except information about your specific watch it would be very nice with common information of the watch model.

 

2/ Not a certificate of authenticity? IMO that’s what most people would like to have, and probably would interpret it as one when for example when buying a watch…

 

3/ A bit pricy, yes especially if it’s not a certificate of authenticity.

 

It looks very good and I think it’s a great service, but I do hope they will offer a certificate of authenticity as well.

 

 

Best

 

Blomman

Send it to me just before their summer holidays.

But, yes, it was fast!

A great service, indeed, but which would need to be improved, IMO.

Globally, encouraging.

Best,

Nicolas

This new 'extract from the archives' is a nice paper indeed. Not too dissimilar to those produced by IWC and PP  (though slightly less detailed, and certainely much more expensive than these other 2 examples which cost 60 and 100 CHF respectively to get)

Up til a recent period (and maybe still today?) Jaeger LeCoultre used to deliver a document (for free if I remember correctly), which was a certificate of authenticity and included about the same information than the abstract which replaces it as well as the picture of the actual watch.

Here is an example of this 'Certificat d'Authenticité' on a special pink gold Duoplan:

Interesting document. That's a pretty generic case reference given: "US Modell". Also, for a post-1932 watch, I would have thought the dial would be signed "LeCoultre" for a U.S. model.

Regards,

Greg

Yes I agree, this document has errors or to say the least imprecisions in it.

The fact is this watch is a non-series production (I doubt it would even have a reference number), and it is likely there is not much information to produce on it (although having more info on its origin would be very interesting)

But it is the only such document I have, so I posted it to show that the 'categories' are sort of the same as in the current abstract.

This particular one is a bad example (because of lack of info on this special watch), but I have seen several others relating to more common watches, which had all the details in the same way we see them on the abstract from archives

 

as I recently asked for replacement of a certificate of authenticity but JLC refused....

I will raise the point with them again.... but I was disappointed....

Cheers

To the Manufacture, which is logical, as it is impossible to authentificate a watch without having in in your hands.

They are thinking about offereing this service, which would be an excellent thing, in my opinion, and which would also contribute to feed the Heritage Gallery Data.

Best,

Nicolas

I have one like this for my Geophysic.

And yes, it was delivered for free.

Like you, I think JLC would have to go deeper in the kind of information delivered.

Let's wait and see!

Best,

Nicolas

I am glad that JLC is providing this service, although it sounds like they were doing some of this service before and are now formalizing the process.  I do think it would be good to offer a certificate of authenticity, as that is what is also needed (right?) when a watch comes without or has lost its papers.  I would love to see additional information, as you suggested Nicolas, such as the location of the original sale, the number of pieces made and the years of production of the model.  Ideally, i woudl like to see a combined document Extract from the Archives with Certificate of Authenticity, understanding that yes, you would have to send your watch in to MJLC for authentication -- but for that sacrifice, and cost, one should then get a complete document.

But the important point here is that MJLC is creating yet another way in which it supports its community and the collectors, of which, I think, it does an admirable job.

Thanks for sharing this, Nicolas. It must be a happy day for those of you collecting the vinatge pieces, no?

respo

" It must be a happy day for those of you collecting the vinatge pieces "...

For you too, my friend, but you don't know it, yet...



Best,

Nicolas

... i thought it would take quite some time for you to receive certificate from MJLC, it seems they commit to give the best service for this job.

Nico, i also quite agreed with others that MJLC would fill up more information on the certificate because serious collectors usually keen to learn and expect more details about their watch collection.

however, it at least shows MJLC to respect vintage collectors for JLC vintages. it is just the start. i am sure they are reading our posts and listening feedbacks, then they will try to accommodate needs of a group of collectors out there. hopefully we will see the improvement sooner and later.

stefan

And was surprised to receive a Fedex so quickly!



That bis an excellent point for the Vintage Community, it just have to be improved, as many things which just ...Start.

Best,

Nicolas

Hopefully JLC will continue this excellent (although quite expensive) service
in the future, so we can all benefit....

Cheers

Nicolas - thank you for sharing with us !!!

The certificate looks great and just to point :
1. I ll agree that more detail as proposed (when was first sold etc) would give more charm and value (but thats also more time consuming)
2. cost narrows the service to the most valuable models but on the other hand many of our watches carry sentimental value so it can be still worth it  for less expensive models
3. I am curious to see how this further will develop - would e-mail service stay in use, would those documents start to be a standard for vintage jlc collectors market
4. important form my perspective - what would be the status of "lecoutre" and US ref. numbers

But in general I have to agree that its great that manufacture moved towards collectors community and I hope its the new era in relations not a pure economical calculation

My best
\
Rafal

I think we are many to agree on these points.

As for the watches coming from the US Market, I hope to be able to have an information to share soon, too.

Best,

Nicolas

I have a couple of vintage Omega watches my dad gave me. It would be a nice touch to have some papers to go with them.

Congratulations to JLC for a wise, value-adding decision and to you on getting the extract so soon!

Ruckdee

Omega will provide you such an extract.

Best,

Nicolas

Great extra information on vintage pieces.  It gives the watch an extra value (market value and collectors value). I think it's a great idea.

 

Thanks, Nico.

 

 

Vte

We'll see whzat JLC will do with this idea, indeed.

Best,

Nicolas

Interesting:
It appears to be a nice service and a good start,to further strengthen bonds between manufacture and the collector / watch-lover community, as I also depict from the various posts.

- A bit off the topic and somewhat naive possibly, though maybe relevant:

Will this Extract From Archives and/or a Certificate of Authenticity (which are not the same I learned, obviously) also be possible for Non-Vintage JLC's, eg when papers have been lost or are simply unavailable any more ?

Thnx for commenting,
hs

If you want a document from JLC for your modern watch, I think it will be easy to get it when you send it for a service.

Check with your JLC AD to get one, in case you don't want to wait till your watch has to be serviced.

He will ask if it is possible.

Best,

Nicolas.

Nicolas, thank you for the kind reply:
Trivial for the vintage Community, helpful for me - and at the same time a reason for me to further dive more into the wonderful passion for these true marvels in the future.

Thank you for your advice and great posts !
hs