Horological Meandering

cheers PAt

A friend had couple of these in his shop (I think the 250 and 500 versions?). After both of us came close to crashing our brains out on them, we call them something rather....particular.

... such as myself would find it easier than someone who is used to a typical motorbike? They do look interesting and I will add it to the Segway as transport to experience sometime.

They are interesting. I like trying out bikes with weird front ends (I have an Italjet Dragster with single sided swingarm front suspension) so was keen to see what the MP3 felt like, especially given it shares the engine with the 500 Aprilia Scarabeo (a big wheel scooter).

It just felt bigger and heavier all around, not that the Scarabeo is light. With a big, bulky front end due to the 2 wheel set-up and a rather long wheelbase, which feels strange on the small 12" wheels, but does add to the stability.

To my mind, the main advantage for a novice (and for wending through traffic jams) is the CVT. Twist and Go - nice for slow speed manoeuvring.

 

of course, I'm not gifted or experienced like he is with all things automotive...

But within my humble, limited range of experience and even more humble, limited technical knowledge,

The MP3 is SLIGHTLY more "stable" than a two wheeled vehicle. It is NOT a panacea - one can EASILY tilt over, and in fact, like most "false sense of security" can be even more dangerous than being "on guard" (eg, the current stupid state of affairs with airport security...again, a FALSE sense of security that costs the majority of people huge waste of time and aggravation while yielding miniscule increases in actual security.)

In simple terms, if someone sees the front track with two wheels and thinks, Hey, I can't tip over!  They are in for a rude awakening.

BUT...the front suspension, because of the two wheeled track, can "lock" and thus stay upright without putting one's feet down when stopped.

Is this the best thing since sliced bread? not in my opinion but it CAN be cool (unless you are the idiot that decides to power out with the front wheels slightly turned when the auto disengage kicks in once you turn the throttle...about as UNcool as not being able to parallel park your Testarossa or Diablo in front of the plate glass window of a busy restaurant...) and it CAN be convenient if you are parking for a short period - engage the front suspension lock, hop off, and come back and start up, power off without trying to put down the stand under a 500lb vehicle...

Good for beginner? I have mixed feelings; for the reasons above, and the weight, I actually WOULDN'T recommend it for beginners. The 250 is probably ideal, but even then the complexity may not be outweighed by the added stability (which, as Ben rightly notes, can be a double edged sword, both because of unusual wheel and chassis dynamics, and rider psychology.) The only thing going for it in that regard is the CVT, as Ben notes. Throttle, clutch, and gear shift can be intimidating, even overwhelming, for a beginner. 

CVT trannies? hop on and go!

But man, when until you, for the first time, realize you are going into a turn WAAAY too hot for your experience and equipment level...a whole different level of sphincter tightening hold your breath excitement, vis a vis four wheel completely enclosed metal coccooned vehicle, aka "car" going in too fast...

But man, do you feel at one with nature!  The micro heat pockets you go through that warm you up, in between 40 degree F ambient temperatures...that you never notice (not the cold, not the heat pockets) in a car, not even a top down convertible; seeing the road and drop offs and scenery off the distance, unencumbered and unobscured by windows and metal door frames (well, the helmet shield, I guess...) It's quite magical, quite refreshing, mind clearing...

Cheers,

TM

 

and i'm glad you experienced it. it shows you were pushing yourself to your limits

in the UK they do 50cc and 125cc versions of this bike and London is full of them as people have the impression they are easier to ride than a 2 wheeler. when you get to 50cc i think the number of wheels has very little to do with it.

Rotax do a big engined wide bodied trike with 2 at the front. i cant remember the name off hand, but its something a bit special and for dedicated fans of the unusual. i actually saw one on the road a few months ago, but by the time i'd turned around it had gone. its main problem though is that its nearly as wide as a car at the front and the big fat tyres will cost a fortune. worth looking at if you want a big boys toy.

i think 90mph is plenty fast enough for a bike like this as its really designed for city commuting.

i must give one a go one day.

Graham

 

like watches, it all depends on what you are after with the experience.

The "trikes" seem to me really a solution for a question no one asked - it is marginally more stable than a bike, but with a whole host of other issues, but does not have several of the benefits I like to ride for - narrower, to park and "split traffic"; and the wonderful feeling of "balancing."

Cheers, look forward to riding with you someday in the UK...no "RHD vs LHD" to get confused about. oh, wait, the correct side of the roadway...

I remember one ride years ago through the desert at night in which I experienced a series of rapid changes in temperature and humidity as I rode through the communities in and around Palm Springs, and I know exactly what you mean, Thomas.  Smells, too can be fantastic (or horrible).  I miss riding terribly and I hope to return one day when the kids don't need me much...

Best,

CaliforniaJed

PuristSPro riding (and driving) group.

A ride (or drive) every two weeks or once a month...

Ah, I can smell the coffee and morning brisk air now...

...but I'm not sure I can do it.  Let me mull it over. At worst, though, ride on over one weekend morning and I'll pull the espresso!

Best,

CaliforniaJed

... TM and BDLJ. While I expected the bike/trike to be heavier than a standard bike, it was the balance and stability that I assumed would help a beginner rider. And for some reason I have always been nervous about supporting the weight of a heavy 2-wheel bike, more in the stationary position than anything else. So I assumed the three wheels would make life easier.

The openness and freedom of a bike always appeals to me, but it's all the other road users that worry me. As Jed observes, I might try it one day when the kids don't need me as much!

Andrew

the extra wheel / wider track up front does add to the perceived "stability" at low speeds and at a stop - it feels more "balanced" and across a wider tilt range less unlikely to "fall" (tilt past the "point of no return") but the additional range of supportable balance is fairly narrow.

And believe me, the MP3 / Fuoco CAN fall over if the rider is not careful. Believe me, I KNOW...

:-(

But riding it is a blast, and it is actually quite easy to get used to.

Cheers,

TM

why is this not posted on the GP forum?
Best
Ztirual

the potential behaviour of watches while riding a motor vehicle with harmonic vibrations, which then has the potential to expand to other wear environments like golfing (acceleration / deceleration, hard shock if taking a large and deep divot); shooting "hot" rounds from a handgun or other firearm (sudden high G force shock / vibration); etc.

So the post is about watches and their functioning in general, and not specifically about GP or even the specific (GP) watch.

That's why I titled it, Things that make you go hmmmm...

Cheers,

TM

Hi TM,
Happy New Year.  Can't wait to hear more about your driving impressions of the Piaggio MP3.  We should take out the GP and see the effects of firearm shocks.  Maybe a PPro range day?

Regards,
ED-209

I'd love to!

Catch up soon.

TM

You're welcome.

_john

ummmm...

 

Now the question is, why do those things indicate a need for service?

curious minds want to know...

BTW - After the ride, now on day 3, it's been spot on for the past 3 days (including checking every 12 hours or so, so half day variations haven't been "cancelling itself out" or put another way, it hasn't been +30 seconds, then -30 seconds...)

hmmmm...

Maybe the manufacturers should buy a fleet of MP3's for their SAV departments and just have their watchmakers wear the watches in for service for 3 hours each...

ps: Happy New Year, John!

... should be included in the routine testing of watches in addition to shock testing?

While if have no additional explanation for the cause of your observations, now that you have demonstrated that the watch runs accurately off the bike, you now need to reproduce the conditions of the ride. That might be a way to show that it was the vibration that affected the chronometry, rather than another explanation such as a time setting train that requires lubrication or servicing.

Thanks again for these real-life observations of the watch on your wrist. I hope others continue these types of posts.

Regards

Andrew

Hello Thomas,

It may not need anything at all, but the company surely didn't intend for it to be +15 s/d when new nor of course to lose 45 minutes on a bike (or, er, whatever...) ride. And although they may consider themselves content with the outcome of "spot on" at this juncture, I'd think that their watchmakers would be nervous that such inconsistent behavior will continue or may even be a precursor to worse behavior still.

If you speak with a watchmaker who has extensive experience with the caliber (unlike myself) and they shrug and say don't worry about it, then it may give you some confidence with your specific example while to my mind perhaps calling into question the timekeeping reliability of the caliber in general to some extent (which is why you should NOT ask this question of anyone who would want to "spin" you if you are in fact interested in an honest answer).

Any mechanical watch with a traditional regulator is somewhat susceptible to timekeeping variation due to shocks and vibration either because the regulator itself moves slightly or because the hairspring shifts a little bit and leans more or less heavily on one curb pin or the other. If that's not uncommon for that caliber then so be it and attempting to address it is as likely to introduce other problems as it is to improve on the situation. And more to the point, it would take a specific and intelligent intervention to address it and would not likely be corrected by regular "service". If the rate change (leaving aside the mysterious loss of 45 min still for the moment) is genuinely unusual for that caliber, then it could be indicative of degraded lubrication or a loose component that presumably WOULD be found and addressed during regular service.

The 45 min loss likewise could be the result of an escapement or other issue basically unrelated to the change in rate (which also might require an above average level of dedicated intervention to address) or it could just be further evidence of a cleanliness or lubrication issue that would also be solved by regular service. Or maybe it has the Hublot "Key of Time" complication built in and the watch knew you were having the time of your life and slowed down accordingly?

If this occurred with a movement I was tasked with maintaining AND I did not know from experience that it was not all that unusual, I would definitely want to look under the hood.

I know, I know, not much help. HNY to you too!

_john

Hi, john,

I wasn't looking for an answer (you know me well enough to know that, right?) but rather discussion. Your comments were exactly what I was looking for.

"If you speak with a watchmaker who has extensive experience with the caliber (unlike myself) and they shrug and say don't worry about it, then it may give you some confidence with your specific example while to my mind perhaps calling into question the timekeeping reliability of the caliber in general to some extent (which is why you should NOT ask this question of anyone who would want to "spin" you if you are in fact interested in an honest answer).
"

Shrug and don't worry about it? Depends on what I'm expecting. The female friends and family I have tend to experience and say things like "why can't I just open the box, take it out, and start using it? Why do I need to read the instructions? stupid design."

or "it should be able to withstand the drop from 3 feet, what a poor design."

or "why can't it be put under water? worn while boxing? etc etc etc"

Sometimes I wonder if we are too forgiving of crappy or not for real world designs or executions on real world "tools;"

other times I shake my head at the naivete of the uninitiated...

;-)

Thanks for your comments, as always!

Hello Thomas,

I hope we get to meet again in 2012!

The GP Evo 3 watches are as you said 'about how easy it is to wear'
I do like those series a lot!  I am just hoping that someday I’ll find one configuration will suit me, great watches.

Scooter, another chapter, being from the South of France I ride a T-MAX 500 (soon to be 530), 2 or 3 years ago I almost purchased the Gilera Fuoco, probably better known when badged Piaggio (although it is the very same company), and it is just the same than the one you are showing.

Boy with toys ;-) it never ends… ;-)

Many thanks for your good wishes.  I take this informal but public ;-) opportunity to wish for you and your family anything that puts big smiles on your faces and shines your horizons

Happy New Year.

as the Piaggio MP3 here in the US; Max Busser and I talked about this several months ago.

It is lots of fun, and quite handy...

All the best, my friend, hope to see you again in 2012.

TM