Horological Meandering

Hi everyone,

Could someone please summarise the features of the forged carbon cases use by AP? Is it especialy hard- scratchproof, light, tough etc?

Admittedly I havn't seen one in person but I hope it's got more going for it than the way it looks because from the pictures I have seen of it it reminds me of a very cheap recycled plastic.

I'm not being gratuitously negative. I just want to know what people see as desirable in this material. No doubt it comes at a hefty premium to an already expensive watch.

Makeaway

you try a google search on "Sintered Carbon". I'm not sure where the "forged" is from?

I have no idea what exact process AP uses in comparison to say a brake disc, but you'll glean a little info for any further discussion/questions.

Personally, aside from lightness (and I don't know whether this is at the expense of other qualities), I think AP is using it as a "high-tech" differentiator, actual physical qualities coming second. That's all.

AP's Carbon Forge (accent over the trailing e) uses cut carbon fiber and cold forged, i.e., die pressed under high pressure.

That's where the "forged" comes from.

;-)

TM

I could not get into the AP area to check on the process, hence my ignorance
I have since seen some photos of the process. No, its' not sintering but equally, it's not forging. Not even close!

It's just stuffing a die with carbon strands and adding the resin under pressure. Which would appear to be basic compression moulding.

In the end, it's just plastic! ;-)

especially in light of the several later threads on the meta subject, I can't disagree with you.

;-)

click here

This article does put the watch in it's context as an uncompromisingly specialist timepiece. I have copied out some relevant text of the article below for those who didn't want to read through it.

I suppose it's one of those watches that you need to have in your hand to really decide if it is a success or not.

"Like the Alinghi racing yacht itself, the use of new materials and the need to keep functions down to the necessary, have left the watch with a stark appearence. However, the watch is exactly what is needed for the team Alinghi members in the race. It needed to be light, durable, shock resistant, and have a count down function that measures 10 minutes, where you need to know the exact countdown, especially at the 10, 5 and 1 minute marker.

The resulting forged carbon had the shock-resistance and lightness properties that the research team were looking for. Once the material had been settled upon, the next obstacle was to create the octagonal case of the chronograph. In keeping with a leading firm in haute horologie, the material had to be able to keep the complex shape of the case and bezel, be resistant to dents and scratches along all axes, keep sharp angles on all surfaces, and retain a perfect surface finish. The finish on the case has a satin-brushed surface to it. As seen in the photos, there is a 'softness' to it. The result is an ultra-light large-sized chronograph with the case from forged carbon weighing only 100 grams."

Hi, Makeaway,

The goals of the material are already quoted. There have been numerous discussions on the material, both in theory, and in situ, on ThePuristS . com Audemars Piguet discussion forum 

Take a look (linked from the drop down menus at the top of the page) and do a search there if interested.

Having had quite a bit of on wrist experience with the model and material, I can say my feelings and experience are consistent with those of others -

The forged carbon as used in the Alinghi Team (ATAC for short, Alinghi Team All Carbon) is light, absorbs shock better than metal cases, and torsionally rigid, similar qualities to carbon fiber as used in racing, aviation, and marine applications.  Much of the specific qualities depend on the resin composition and the binder used, as well as the ratio of binder to carbon.

As used for the ATAC, it is NOT sintered (pressed powder) but rather cut carbon fiber.

At the present time, the surface hardness is slightly lower than steel and ti, and it does scratch, but due to the intended "pattern" of the finished material, scratches actually are not nearly as "offensive" as with metal cases.  Some even feel it adds to the "patina" of the case.  It does nick, though, and the resulting nick leaves a "raw" look.  At this time (this is being worked on) the material cannot be refinished, and case parts that would normally need to be "refinished" if in traditional materials, have to be replaced.

It is extremely light, and the strength to weight ration is superior, obviously, to any traditional materials used for watchmaking.

The material is definitely one that needs to be seen and handled in person to be appreciated; it is not for everyone, and reactions range from "wow!" to "plasticky"

Here are some more pics from a recent thread on the AP forum - click here