Horological Meandering

Came across an interesting article that may directly affect what new watches are available, and perhaps indirectly affect which watches are worn :http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601093&sid=a4.ajm7HEB1E&refer=home

Do you agree with this potential turn in the watch industry to make more subdued, stealth-wealth watches--I can think of the MIH watch--or do you think it is business as usual, at least for a while?

As a horological purist, what are your thoughts in the recent turn of events in what watches are available, and in the future direction of watch design? Would we still see magnificent complications and over-engineered pieces, or will this turn the current trend of "44 & above" to the retro "32ish"?

For me, I hazard a guess: magnificent complications will still be made, but with their prices move even higher as the gap widens even more. But maybe there will be a new wave of stealth watches like the MIH--simple dials hiding complicated movements and only showing symbolic value--coming out from renowned watchmakers who are now too prone for the mundane LEs or designs that shout 'conspicuous consumption'.

in any good market, there are options for all needs. I believe that the resurgence of Swiss time pieces has served to strengthen the watch market and as such, ensured there will be variety if for no other reason, for the watch makers to distingush themselves from each other.

Look at the independents as a subset of the larger market. You have Nicholas Delaloye with a wonderfully understated and elegent design built on a stunning in-house movement. Then there is Roger Smith doing the same thing, but at a 2x or higher price point. Peter Speake-Marin brings a more artistic design to the case and dial, with the enamal dial "hiding" the uniqueness of this very challenging dial techique.

Stephan Sarpanova and Paul Gerber making other unique pieces also at very different price points, bringing technical (Gerber) and artistic (Sarpanova) differentiation to the market.

In the larger market, this is magnified significantly. Given the range of styles, designs, and prices that an ETA 2426 sells for, it is clear that to most buyers, the trend is set by the marketers and not the buyers. Ashame in my opinion.

My preference is 42+\- 2mm and I have had a hard time finding these at times despite the "move to large watches". Many AP, GO, VC and even PP are to small for me, which means they are "righter" for the "retuning old market".

I do agree that the very small diameter watches (sub 36mm) are few and far between, but don't expect many of these to return if for no greater reason than the aging of both the population in general, and certainly the majority of watch collectors. (except for those on the purists web site who remain ageless in some magical way.)

Once any trend become to commonplace, something new will be introduced to counter it. I never have been very good at being told what is in or out of style. I am often very off track with what the trend publications say I should be doing. Then again, when they list great watches at various price points (as fortune did awhile back) I am always amazed at how expected and traditional they are on their selection. Just my 2 cents This message has been edited by SBS-purists on 2008-10-08 22:37:29

reading the report makes me think that the man gets paid for talking a load of rubbish.

yes, the world is in a financial crisis, but things will settle out over the next couple of years. people have short memories and after perhaps 2 years of caution they will continue as they did before. i'm not going to change my clothing or accessories just because Mr Pedraza says we should and i hardly think Donald Trump is going to be bothered about his opinion either. he may be advised to reduce his 'comb over' hair style, but that has nothing to do with finance

i'm sorry, but i cannot believe for 1 minute that watch trends are going to change because of the current situation. historically watches have gradually increased in size since they first started going on the wrist. 32mm was the trend Just after the war and by the 70's 34-36mm was standard. 38-40mm is now pretty much the smallest available in the majority of companies with up to 47mm for quite a few highly respected companies. there are a small minority of high end companies continuing the smaller watch. PP is the main one that comes to mind. very traditional and sold in the main to people who appreciate understated quality. in the 1950's people bought 32mm watches because that was all that was available. as sizes increased the choice got bigger and people wore what they preferred and thats how things have continued to the present day and will continue to do so regardless of mr Pedraza's report.

if, when Pedraza refers to oversized watches he means the Jacob & Co. style diamond encrusted pieces of tat worn by the David Beckhams of this world then i hope he is right as they are IMHO an abomination.

personally i think that people who read his report will, with regard to watches, ignore it and carry on as before regardless.

just my opinion of course which is about as relevant as Pedraza's opinion

Graham

Graham,

You seem to be saying that big watches (IMO >44mm) have become normalized such that wearing one today neither shows ostentatiousness nor a sign of 'conspicuous' wealth. In that case, the bloomberg report was merely written from another perspective where big watches can hardly be said to be normalized beyond a certain cadre, and wearing them symbolizes that one belongs in the 'club'.

I suppose that folks who participate on this website are also enthusiasts who go beyond such superficialities. While I am uncertain if the bulk of the watches today (and their corresponding trend) are mainly designed for this group of enthusiasts and their acquired taste, a turn in outlook in the larger group of consumers out there is likely to affect what is being offered to keep the discussion here going.

Nonetheless, it is interesting to note which are the horological houses which are predicted to do better, which I thought was an interesting topic of discussion during this season of blood-letting.

...that like all trends the current "large watch" trend will wane? The word "trend" itself would predict the inevitable. I see the design/fashion segment of our passion as suscptible to change as the fashion industry, just not as frequent or dramatic (bell bottoms, three piece suits [now making a resurgence by the way], etc.).

Does a parody of a large watch wearing consumer.. will be a sticky wicket for the industry...remember when Burberry was 'Chick'.

Hi,

Passion, opinion, information!

This man may be entitled to share his opinion with us, but that's no more than his opinion. he demonstrates nothing.

Exactly what we do here, except that here people can react, comment.

If I open a thread my opinion is a door for a discussion, not a definitive statement.

So thank you for opening a door to the discussion of his opinion! 

Personaly I've never liked orange sports cars and oversized watches. Am I going to buy an orange Fiat 500 to show that I'm a smart guy because I can have simple taste?

Am I going to wear the black clothing and appearance suited for the death of the world finance? Cetainly not!

I just don't care what happens to US or international finance companies. If speculators are brought to bankruptcy no problem that's the game!

I may just be a bit more careful for my purchases, but I'm not going to change from a financial religion for another!

Cheers

Dje

This message has been edited by Dje on 2008-10-09 10:19:53

it just comes down to my original opinion. he's paid to say something even if its total crap and i'm afraid IMHO his opinion is just that, total crap.

anyone who is influenced by that report needs their head testing.

Graham

nt

1. The reporter apparently interviewed one guy only.

2. The guy works in the luxury goods industry and therefore cannot state the obvious (and probably correct) conclusion that given the state of the world economy luxury goods sellers will be in big trouble across the board.

3. The luxury goods industry depends on change in fashion to keep people buying new products. The one thing you will never hear from a luxury good purveyor is that what you have in your closet this year will be perfectly fine to wear next year.

4. Accordingly, even if people want to keep wearing big watches, the industry will move to small watches if it feels it can sell more watches that way. There may be a stumbling block, though, in that smaller watches (incorporating the same features and performance) are more difficult and expensive to produce.

5. I think a lot of people never moved to large watches in the first place, primarily because of comfort considerations. The watch size controversy is irrelevant to them.

Graham, you rather succinctly stated my reaction upon reading the article.

I think Pedraza has his head firmly shoved up somewhere...Maybe he is just focused on the Wall Street/NYC wealthy, but he certainly is completely out of touch with our segment of the population IMHO.

Connoisseurs of wristwatches don't care what people like him say, think or opine. They know what they like and for what reason. A finely crafted wristwatch made by skilled artisans or any other item that resides at the pinnacle of it's field, will always have people seeking it out. It is a human need, the appreciation of aesthetics. One can debate why all day long, but it is there, and one that we fulfill in our way by acquiring, wearing and appreciating a fine wristwatch.

The line about "...more men will start carrying attache cases as a symbol of gravitas" has to be one of the most absurd lines.

Oh dear what a world we live in...a sad reflection that this drivel gets printed.

My 2 cents,

Cheers,

Tim

... smaller watches due to appearing more politically correct in the current situation is well within the line that lead to the existing financial mess - form over content, by all means.

What if the economy will miraculously recover and boom (welcome to Utopia)? Probably 5 cm would be just about right for Mr. Pedraza

My 2 cents, debt-free.

Wooster

Like all of us, Mr. Pedraza is restricted to see the world through his eyes.  His view and all of our individual views are biased. 

I suspect that he is speaking from a Wall Street / finance industry perspective.  Afterall, it was a Bloomberg intereview and the audience there are all in the industry.

I don't agree with all the specifics he mentioned but I think the broad brush picture he is painting is that people (in the finance industry especially) may be less showy and more considerate.  I have a watch enthusiast friend that works for one of the banks that failed and I refrained from telling him that I bought this great watch last week.  I even thought twice about wearing it to a lunch appointment with him. 

The size of watches was an example that Pedraza used to bring across the message.  I doubt that the burst of the bubble will affect watch sizes directly but it sure will affect a lot of things....

I cannot wear anything larger than 38mm. 41mm is an exception reserved for sporty chronos and only one of my current watches fits the bill.

So for me it's a moot point... I salute smaller watches because I can wear them, not because of world economy or whatelse.