Patek Philippe

dear all, i am buying privately a brand new 3940G. it is the last series. the watch comes with its certificate of origin dated and stamped in 2006 by an AD. i rang PP here in the uk to ask "how can i ensure that the watch is not stolen even if i am in possession of its papers". they told me that the only way is to apply for an extract from the archives.

i have done a search through the forum and while many interesting things have been mentioned, i have never seen mentioned that the extract from the archives is a "guarantee" that the watch is not stolen. since anybody who has the case & movement number can apply for an extract, this hardly seems to me as good due diligence. am i missing somehting?

anybody with any views or better, any experience?

thank you

constantine

You are right.... anybody who has the case and movement number can get an Extract from the Archives and it isn't in itself any form of safeguard against buying a stolen watch.
I believe Patek themselves in Geneva keep a register of stolen watches in event they are sent for servicing they can be acted upon.
Best to visit the Bond street salon and speak to them in person and see if they can find out for you if it is on the Stolen database .Everyone there is most helpful.
Good luck
Roni

yes, bond street is always helpful. that is who i called this morning.

better to ask  the seller a declaration of legal origin.

Fabio

"legal origin" is also a receipt from the place bought, correct? if that is not available then what? thanks

A declaration of Legal Origine  with the signature of the seller  is a paper which state the seller sell the watch( description of the watch with case number) to you at XXX price  ( and this is a document of property for you ) and declare that the watch is not stolen. In case of problems you can demostrate you bought the watch.

Hope to help you.

 

Fabio

This message has been edited by fabios on 2011-03-17 07:59:15

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While I wouldn't trust papers already printed, I would imagine newly ordered papers direct from Geneva would provide you reasonable support for provenance. I would imagine Patek has some form of centralised database for this.

Good luck!

Peter

.....archives with a number from a stolen watch Patek Philippe would know, so yes it would prove the watch was not stolen.

Patek can only tell you that a watch is stolen if the watch was reported to them as being stolen.  If they were never notified, then they don'dt nkow.  So, using logic:

If Patek tells you the watch is stolen, then it is stolen.  There is nothing else they can tell you.

Patek cannot guarantee that the watch was not stolen because they might not know.

....that if the watch is not reported stolen then PP extracts are not going to report it as such. therefore i am questioning the value of the extracts as they are not completely watertight. what i will do instead, is draft a sale agreement and insert a clause that indemnifies me the whole amount plus intererest, in the event it is later proved that the watch was stolen and i am required to return it. i would become suspicious if the dealer refuses to sign this. would you agree?

In the US (and I suspect most of Europe) if you buy from a retailer/dealer you are deemed a bona file purchaser and you take the item free of any claims that it was stolen.  You are entitled, as buyer, to rely on reps made by such sellers that you are buying the watch free and clear.  So, no worries if you are buying from a retailer/dealer.  If you are buying from an individual, it is another story and it is "buyer beware".