Patek Philippe

Hi fellow horology fans.
I have been lurking around the Breguet and Patek forums for some time, smiling at the enthusiasm of the forum members, learning about horology, but generally being thrilled by the pictures and information. It's nice to see such a fabulous community of enthusiasts.
This is my first post and I am asking for your experience and advice. After a long wait, the time has come for me to fulfill my dreams and finally purchase a Patek of my own. I need you guys to guide me.
Firstly, I have NO relationship with my AD (Patek in Bond St, London) - I've never walked into the AD, let alone purchased a Patek!
Can you guys tell me how does the order process work? If I request an especially rare or hard to get piece, will I be told to get lost? I am well aware of waiting lists and delivery times and this is no problem. I am an enthusiast and I'll wait and I want to do things properly and buy from my local dealer. I have no interest in participating in the secondary market or getting involved in the payment of premiums etc etc or dodgy dealers.
If I were to walk in, would I be able to order ANY given piece (depending on whether it was still in production)? Or would they need to "know" me to be able to "qualify" to order such a piece based on a previous relationship with them?
(For example, anyone can order a Ferrari 458 if they'll wait, but getting a Ferrari Enzo was effectively limited to very heavy customers - those who 'automatically' qualified would be known to the factory and would be in possession of the F50, and F40 and 288GTO all at the same time or had spent millions with Ferrari on their track cars in a very recent period.)

If I wanted a rare piece would it be like ordering a 458 or would it be like getting an Enzo?

If they accepted my order I presume they would want a down payment from me? Is there a standard amount they take, percentage wise, or is your name added to a list?
If it is the latter, would they really bother to call me if my piece arrived?
I've been fortunate enough to be intimately familiar with the ordering of certain Italian sports cars so I know how it all works. What I want to know is whether getting my dream Patek is a similar experience? For the purposes of this post, assume that I want to purchase a VERY desirable piece... (whatever you consider that to be), and that it is the piece which is the most difficult to obtain - presume a "worst case scenario."

Sorry for the rambling post. You're educating an enthusiast who knows what he likes but I want to have all the facts right before I walk in.

Kind Regards

MB

Yes, the process is pretty similar to buying a car, like you described.

I do have some experience with this particular AD and I have to say - much depends on how desperately they need your business. Allow me to share my story:

As a visitor from Hong Kong, I wandered into the Patek boutique at Old Bond Street some four years ago (I was a relative newbie in watches then) and asked if I could get a 5712G. None was available at that time. The salesman I spoke to offered me a 5101P instead, as they had one in stock. Not willing to spend that kind of money, I stupidly declined (I am still kicking myself today). Eventually, I opted for a relatively inexpensive 5119R and the salesman promised to put me on the waiting list for the 5712G, but indicated that it would take at least two years for me to get around to it.

I did not pin much hope on the promise, especially when the salesman subsequently left the boutique as well. 

Approximately two years elapsed and one day, I miraculously received a phone call from a lady in London asking if I still wanted my 5712G! I was pleasantly surprised but unfortunately I already got mine so again, I gratefully declined. In other words, the ordering process does work! Well...to some extent...and no, you do not need to make a downpayment.

My guess is - if you wish to order something like a 5102, 5950 or, for that matter 5013, 5074 or 5078, you won't be entertained but if you set your eyes on more 'ordinary' pieces like 5980, 5205 or 5170, EVENTUALLY, you will get your turn, assuming you don't have an existing 'relationship'.

Let's hear from the experience of others.

Cheers

Sam

  

Hi MB,

Welcome to the forum.

If you want a certain piece the Boutique in general is the place where your chances of obtaining it are highest.

I was at the Bond street boutique earlier in the year, and despite me having looked around in the boutique, I never purchased any watches there (I have always bought through my AD). The lady who helped me that day I had never met, so I was as anonymous a customer to her as one could be. Also very casually dressed in sneakers, old jeans and shirt. So by no means clear that I had the money to even purchase something from the PP boutique.

I was asking her about some pieces including 5980 (black dial), 5960P etc. She told me to wait for a minute and went to the safe to get me some watches they had in stock, amongst others 5712/1A, 5980/1A, 5960P, 5960R, 5130P, and some more. By that time she noticed that I was wearing my blue Nautilus Chrono, so now understood why I was asking about the black dial version, which she did not have in stock. But all the others she did have and when I asked if one of the above would be sold (I was interested in the 5960P, but was not going to pull the trigger at that very moment) how long it would take for them to get another piece, the answer was "approximately 1 month".....

Yes, 1 month! So whereas my dealer almost has to wait a full year for a 5960P the boutique has it in continuous supply and you do not even need to be a registered customer with them in order to be offered one.

Now, the story is slightly different for the minute repeaters, tourbillons etc, which are usually subject to some sort of a dog and pony show, where you really have to convince them that you are a worthy collector with a good number of other Pateks in your possession.

But if you just put the money down on the table, I am pretty sure that the boutique will be able to cater to your needs relatively quickly, with the exception of some exotic pieces.

Clearly, the boutiques are far better supplied than the ADs, which is too bad as I really prefer to buy from my AD, but I fully understand from PPs position.

There is something I do not understand.

You say that you have not visited your AD...

Have ever tried any PPs on your wrist?

I would first try some pieces on and see how I like them before ordering any grand one....
I would also buy an "entry" watch and see if PP is to my liking after sometime on my wrist and
then commit to a grand one....

Welcome again here

Cheers

Hi,

I don't have your answer, but welcome here! 

Enjoy the place and please tell us how it will turn .

Cheers

Dje

here is my advice: walk in smartly dressed and tell them which piece you would like to order (hint: 5004 and 5016 are still on website but not orderable any more, 5207 is still Geneva only I believe). Tell them you are new to Patek and have done research and you are interested in that piece because of so and so. Tell them you are happy to wait and put a deposit down, and also you might want to purchase a piece they have in stock that you like on the spot to show you are not a flipper and are serious.

they will then either take you seriously because you are serious about it or not believe you...

are 110% friendly, and wonderful people.

they are also extremely knowledgable, and are certainly not naive. they know their business well, I can assure of that.

They will assist you in anyway possible. they will not prejudge in anyway.

I know this from personal experience.

For them customer is king...

however, remember what I said, they know their business better than anyone...

so please dont walk in and say you want a 5131 or a 5170....and expect , they have a list as long as the M1 for this.

but if its an annual calender, you'll be in luck.

Best Imran

I have never been to the any European PP dealer but I do know that H. Stern in America will not guarantee delivery of ANY watch to its dealer network. Therefore, they have informed their dealers not to accept any down payment as this may be considered a contractual agreement to supply the watch. I am not sure if this policy applies to other regional networks.

Depending upon the exclusivity of the watch you are considering it may be necessary to complete an application for a specific watch. These apply to minute repeaters, tourbillions and other limited edition watches. Essentially these watches are bespoken pieces. You may be lucky to find one such watch in a dealer but I understand an application still needs to be completed before the watch may be sold to anyone in particular.

The application process is a one sheet form which may be completed by the  AD or the client. It asks such questions as the watches (and specifically Pateks) in your collection, your collecting philosophy etc. From previous interviews with Philippe Stern it seems he was looking for a steady progression of collecting from simple less expensive models to more advanced complicated pieces. If you are looking for a grail watch and do not own a Patek I suspect your application may be placed in the repository! I do know of a situation where someone was approved for a very exclusive watch and they were required to purchase a number of higher-end smaller complications to acquire the watch (this requirement was from PP and not the AD).

I suggest your best course of action may be to start with a few smaller watches and then move up to the big dogs. Consider purchasing a simple hand wind, than a steel watch, an annual calendar and than a chronograph. If you are looking for a watch with a price tag in the $300-$500K range it will cost you almost double that in the secondary market. This way you will only have to pay retail for the grail watch, you will acquire a nice collection of other Patek watches and you will be well connected for future watches. A solid investment strategy if you ask me.

 

Mike S.

 

I was with my family in Switzerland couldn't wait to visit PP in Geneva it was the most fun PP treated us like royalty after I said I want to purchase a Deployment clasp for my 5079J, it was would you care for an Espresso anything for the kids couldn't of been nicer and more accommondating.  Later I said I would like to add to my collection a 5078P,  they said they would get back to me and they did about 3 months later with many emails going back and forth, my order was placed.  About 16 months later I received an email my 5078P was ready for delivery couldn't believe it.
The watch arrived in a wooden crate 3ft by 3ft with long  nails holding the crate together.  Had to have a drink with hammer in hand opened my wooden crate (a great pack job) there it was my new 5078P a really memorial experience.  Since purchasing my 5078P I have been invited to a couple of PP's get together in Geneva, meeting the Stern's and management haven't been able to make the trip as of yet.  But hope to in the near future.  For now I am enjoying all my watch collecting.
ps  Patek Philippe is a great company and I love there watches.

The Geneva boutique provides excellent service....

Cheers

Thanks everyone for your guidance and welcome messages. I intend to get as involved in the forum as possible.
A little bit about me, I have in the past bought and derived great pleasure from rather less exotic watches - the obligatory Rolex Daytona (steel, and steel+gold), Breitling, and a lovely Gulf colours Tag Monaco which was eventually gifted to my brother. I've had a long standing interest in Patek and Breguet, but as I'm sure you'll all know, participation via ownership is no small matter. It began when one of my best friends was gifted a 5119 some time ago. I couldn't believe the quality of the finish and the sheer elegant simplicity. Some time later I was introduced to a very serious collector (who like me, loved quick cars also) last year. Since then, through him, I've been lucky enough to have tried on many Patek pieces including a 5970 but it's now that I want to get involved.
I almost, almost purchased a 6000G in Watches of Switzerland but remember having doubts, and then a few months later I was on the verge of purchasing a gorgeous Breguet La Tradition - although the styles of the two manufacturers are absolutely poles apart, the kind salesmen ruined my life (and stopped the deal) by showing me a 5070 which was in for maintenance I believe, and belonged to a friend of his..... And that was it.
I think it fair that you should also know that, regardless of availability it wasn't my intention to imply that I wanted to purchase a piece in the "hyper-watch" end of this market - no tourbillions,no minute-repeaters etc for me yet. All in good time but not yet.

Here are my thoughts.

I'm not convinced about the "strategy" of purchasing other pieces to build a relationship... Although I fully understand limited supply and strong demand rationing the items for the most loyal customers, buying something I'm not FULLY in love with (like that admittedly lovely 6000G) to facilitate something I'd kill to own, is a little too much like business for me. I was recently told that if someone is desperate for the Ferrari Enzo's replacement he could have it without buying a single Ferrari, other than the useless track-only 599XX video game car for €1,.2M. That's not enthusiasm. That's business and it's not me.
It's worth re-iterating that I will never get involved in the secondary market. I have a phobia about dealing with entities like these. I can understand the value of the secondary market in providing a means of disposal when you want to fund a new addition to the collection, but after years of experience with cars, and corresponding "dodgy dealers" and "beating the wait list" and "premiums over list," I won't get involved in the purchase of an item which is an emotional purchase through it.

MORE importantly, I'm a burgeoning enthusiast, I don't want to start off by getting involved at the cynical "business" end of this. It'll take the fun out of it. I'm an enthusiast and I'll wait.
Now the 5070 is history, the piece I have my heart set on, sadly, is the new 5170. I can wait and wait and wait, IF I know that *eventually* it will happen but it looks like even this is not possible.....hmmm... oh well! !