Patek Philippe

Hi gents this is my first post to the forum. Excuse my ignorance if it shows. Can anyone help me in considering acquiring a 5296g plain dial versus a Rolex White Gold Day Date with silver roman dial? This would be a business casual/smart casual/dress watch, as I already have 2 "tool watch" Rolex (GMT Master II Pepsi and Explorer II Polar). The watch isn't for formal functions, as I attend few to none of these, however, it would be used for going out to dinner, wear with suits, sportcoat, smart casual, etc. I don't care for "bling", but I appreciate tough construction.

I like the larger case size of the 5296g as well as the serene, plain dial. However, I'm mainly having trouble digesting the following: why does the Patek cost as much as the Rolex when it lacks a precious metal bracelet? Also, can the Patek survive with aplomb a good, accidental hit like a Rolex would, or would it be severely damaged/shattered? I'm careful with my watches but wanted to ask the question all the same. I appreciate your input.

and I have had no bad experience with them during the past 25 years. At the moment I own 9 of them and will get at least three more. At the same time I have just two  Pateks and I have had problems with both.

Still, without a second thought my reply to your question is Patek.

You can get a Volvo with a big V8 engine or then you can buy a same size of engine in a Maserati. Even Volvo is a heavier car, uses more steel and is probably a safer car than Maserati, why does Maserati still cost much more?

The same answer applies to Rolex vs. Patek Philippe. In the future you can go anywhere with any kind of suit with a Patek Philippe Caltrava. The watch shows that you appreciate the highest quality and it will always be a most elegant and stylish watch. Rolex is without hesitation a really well made watch but for me, Rolex is mostly a sports watch. Furthermore, you might later come to the conclusion that a golden bracelet is a bit "too much" and happier with an alligator strap which you can quite easily change i.e. from black to blue, from blue to brown, etc. And always when you change the strap, your watch will get a new face.

If you like the golden bracelet, you can later order one from Patek to your Caltrava. I made that but today I would just order a golden folding clasp.

Best, Kari

thank you-- what problems did you have with your Patek?

The other one did not function even one day after I bought it new from an AD. The rotor was jamming. The watch was sent to Geneva and I got it back after 10-11 months. It did not function any better and the AD confirmed PP in Geneva that the watch is not functioning. Patek replied basically "it is impossible because we have serviced it and it is a Patek". I took the watch to an independent service center in Switzerland and a competent watchmaker fixed the watch in a day.

My other watch, Nautilus, stopped to functioning totally about 2.5 years after I bought it new from an AD. This watch I got on  the same day it came to the AD from Geneva because I had ordered it some 6 months earlier. Now I got the watch  back in a reasonable time of some 3 months. The service costed in the AD, like they said € 900 and something with receipt and € 800 sharp cash and without receipt... Naturally, even I asked what was the problem, I got no explanations. The AD said that most of the time Patek don't explain anything.

However, so many people are speaking so nicely about Patek that sooner or later I will try one more time.

I have not counted but I have over 50 "fine" watches with manufactured movements. I have had problems with only my two Pateks and with 1 Breguet out of the 4 I own. But I still trust that PP is a fine watch.

Regards, Kari 

The PP is so costly as it is a handmade watch, with a lot work done by a watchmakers and other craftsman.

The Rolex is in comparison ( we compare now just the movement ) mundane to a PP.

Each PP movement is made individually, as a Rolex is an assembly of parts.

You can see this also in the production numbers: Rolex makes over a million watches a year, PP just 35.000.

This showes also how much effort has been put into a watch.

Your second question: sturdyness.

Both are mechanical watches and to be treated as that.

The PP might be a bit more touchy than the Rolex as the movement is nearly always thinner than a Rolex one, but still both are touchy !

Example of  a thick Rolex movement: the Rolex caliber 3135 is as thicker as the whole (!) Ellipse watch.

But Rolex, as a very established manufacturer, still independant, with an altruistic task, makes good watches.

It simply feeds a different need than a PP does.


And now the overall decisive factor: taste !

Choose what you like more, simply.

Regards

Moritz

P S : In German exists the word mondaen, but with the opposite meaning: in German it means, lavish, opulent, elegant.

and like them for different reasons. The Rolex being a very stout watch, the Patek representing a more refined appearance and I wear them accordingly, meaning when I am in a suit, the Patek is on my wrist.

The occasion calls for the watch, so if you lack a dress watch, I would think you would consider the Patek. However, you appear to be a Rolex man and the w/g day-date is a great watch. One thing to consider is that if you tire of the bling of the bracelet, it is easy enough to remove and put on a smart looking alligator strap. It really changes the overall feel of the watch dramatically and offers an additional option. I have straps on 3 Rolexes now and look at any additional Rolex acquisitions with that in mind.

If you are into watches, I would think that a Patek would, in the near future, be on your list and the 5296G would certainly be a good choice, but do be aware that there are no future dial changes on the Patek, whereas there are on the Day-Date.

No, the Patek will not be able to withstand the type of tough wear that your current Rolexes can, but is not all so fragile either, it is after all meant to be worn. If it does receive an extreme blow, yes it can be severely damaged and could cost quite a bit to repair, but I doubt you would experience such a thing. You could, of course, experience the same with the Rolex.

You asked why the Patek costs about the same as the Rolex on bracelet, I would consider the question, why is the Rolex so much less than the Patek? I suspect many people responding to a question like that will give a multitude of explanations that you will have to digest and fit into to your decision-making process. I suspect the term "quality" will enter the picture at some point and there will be varying points of view as to what it is and how it is measured. I think it is safe to say that the two brands stand pretty tall and the decision will be made for other factors such as cost, style, performance, reputation, perceived value, etc.

I have a sneaky suspicion that you will own both at some point. Good luck!

I would choose the Patek if I was in your shoes, specially knowing you already have the Rolex watches to wear for more casual occasions.
At the same time, do note the Patek is not going to be even close to as robust, or ruggedly constructed as the Rolex Day Date. Having owned and worn many models of both these brands for over 15 years, I feel Patek's offer a different pleasure on the wrist, whereas rugged construction and robust reliability are undoubtedly more up Rolex's alley.
Lets say you could wear the Rolex and enjoy its robustness on a daily basis, while the Patek would be happier worn more sparingly in a more formal atmosphere.
Relatively more people will recognize, admire and praise a Rolex on your wrist, but you can be sure the few that do recognize a Patek on your wrist will walk away impressed and knowing you are no ordinary watch aficionado.

Patek definitely makes some of the most beautiful dress watches; Rolex makes superb "daily beaters" that just keep on ticking no matter what you throw at them. But ... have you considered taking the time and going shopping some more at other dealers? You might find something else that strike your fancy in a more decisive manner - the best watch is the one you really, really, want

ili

I do like my watches fairly ready to wear...wound and ready. Do Pateks take to winders well or is this not recommended?

I have a 5712g and a 5167 on a winder and both have not shown any problems.

I have both brands. I recently traded a vintage Rolex 1675 GMT for a vintage Calatrava 96. I'll take any Patek over any Rolex anytime. I don't worry about wearing my Pateks for normal activities. if I need a real beater for hiking, etc., I don't even wear a Rolex, I wear a Marathon SAR or Seiko diver.

Greetings from Chicago also.   On the 5296 I sold it to buy the Rolex Platinum Day Date which is similar to the White Gold president although the platinum day date is much heavier and durable.  White Gold does ding and so does platinum.   On the Patek Philippe it is clear that everything about the watch is of a higher quality.  Price in salvage metal value is not where the intrinsic value of any watch is including a Patek.   The value of Patek is that it is handmade (really handmade) and they are rare and they make only about 30K-40K watches a year.    Patek clearly makes the best of the best watches and are highly desirable and are extremely sought after by collectors.  The pros of the Patek are that it is rare, beautiful, simple, elegant, and no one notices it unless they really know watches. 
       Rolex watches are durable rugged and great everyday watches.   On the White Gold Day Date it is a nice watch although you take a steep hit on value if you pay retail.   The advantage of the Day Date is that it is a heavy wrist watch with a bracelet and you can feel the watch on you wrist.   It is durable and usually you should not have any problems with either watch.    The advantage of the Rolex is that everyone knows what it is (it turns heads) or this is a negative, you can sell it quickly and not lose much value if you paid the right price, it is a timeless design etc.   Rolex however, makes a lot of watches a year estimated at about a million, but when you consider how many watches are stainless steel then the number of all gold or platinum watches must be a fairly low number.  I have to say that I really like the Day Date as much as the Patek Philippe or maybe a little more because of the bracelet, but the Patek was an excellent watch and I do miss it a lot.   I had the 5296 G with the Sector Dial and it was like a piece of art.  The plain dial is elegant and subtle but very classy.   If you like having a bracelet then you should probably go with the Day Date.   However, if you want just a dress watch and you were your sport Rolexes everyday then go with the Patek as you should have one nice dress watch.   Make sure they significantly discount both watches as the resale on each watch is not bad but not great.   A good discount on both would be 30-35% from a dealer, if not go to a grey dealer for both and compare prices.    Maybe you should get one and then the other later.

If you look at the cost of a Patek 5712/1a and then the 5712G or R you will see that the price is pretty close. Which means either a disproportionate % of the value is in the labor and in the movement or Patek is very clever with pricing. Platinum throws a wrench in this as it is so much more expensive as a raw material these days. Look at the cost of the Rolex in ss, wg and pt and you see a steep curve. While the rolex is durable when you get into this kind of level within mechanical watches a wg rolex is akin to putting a 4 cylinder diesel engine into a carbon fiber body. It doesn't make any sense. You would be better off buying a pre-owned Calatrava as a dress watch and buying a ss Rolex for your daily beater.