Patek Philippe

just curious-----why has the price of the 5960 P dropped so severely? and why is the 5070 P so artificially high,,,>>> what is the big difference and why is the 5070 P $25,000 more $$ when it has many less features as well as being manual...

I am assuming the 5960 P is not mass produced...w/ almost 500 moving hand made parts...there are probably 1,000 or less out there in the market..

unless the entire Patek market is collapsing...

 

owner of many Pateks and just curious for honest objective feedback...

This message has been edited by Dje on 2010-02-14 02:31:20 This message has been edited by Dje on 2010-02-19 08:17:34 This message has been edited by Dje on 2010-02-19 08:17:50

Carl,

The retail price of the 5960P hasn't changed in the U.S., and all of the 5070 models are out of production with no retail price.

Apparently you are asking for an explanation of the apparent shift in asking prices in the secondary market, and that is always a function of what the seller paid and what the seller hopes to receive.  The 5960P was available at lower prices when it was first released, followed by an increase in retail prices.  Those who bought early can profit from a sale at less than today's retail.  In contrast, the few 5070Ps released were all sold for a high retail price in a short period of time, and with very few available on the secondary market, sellers understandably seek a price higher than retail.

Park

 

 

 

5960 P or R ... and J and G who will follow one day

It is a nice watch (very nice) but Patek made this great chrono to be able to produce more chronographs. Just like the 5980. Both share the same chronograph movement. We have no official numbers but if you allow me to guess, I wouldn't be surprised if Patek makes 1.500 pce per year (5960P + 5960R + 5980). The dealers I know got 1 or somethimes more than 1 of each every year. Since there are about 500 dealers worldwide I think 1.500 of those is acceptable. The 5960-5980 is imo comparable with the annual calendars (5146 + 5135+ 5396) . These are great watches and entry high-end Pateks but there are a lot off them out there. Imo Patek wanted to offer a chrono which was also better available. It wouldn't surprise me if in 2020 there would excist 20.000 or more 5960+5980. So yes, it is a very nice watch and it is very rare  if you compare it with a Rolex daytona but for being a Patek it's not that rare.

The 5070 J/G/R/P

Tha's a different story. If you count all these together you will probably stop at more or less 3.000 pce (in a 10 year production run) . Patek once said in one of their magazines that they would make about 250 pieces per year per color and the R/G/J were all made 4 years.

From 1998-1999 utill 2001-2002 they made the yellow gold with black dial. From 2002 untill 2006 they made the white gold with white dial and from 2004 untill 2008-2009 they made the redgold with silver grey dial. And more or less 1 year (around 2008-2009) they made the Paltunum with blue sunburst dial. You also said that the 5960 is an automatic and the 5070 isn't. That's correct but I think your conclusion is wrong. Most watch enthusiasts will prefer a manual wind. Definitely in that kind of watches. If we're talking about a Rolex Submariner, an automatic is usefull and fine but in the high-end chronographs made buy Patek, Breguet,VC and others people will prefer an manual wind. Also know that the manual chrono which we found in the 5070/5970/5004 is much more difficult to make than the automatic in the 5960/5980. If you look at all the seperate parts in that movement the , the 5070/5970/5004 is much better finished. Patek knows most enthusiasts will prefer a manual wind and that's why they will announce a new chrono  at Basel 2010. They just had to make something which could replace the 5070/5970/5004 because the 5960/5980 can't.

And about the price ... The 5070 did not rise that much. I presume you're looking in USD. In that case the watch became indeed more expensive but that's because of the currency and not because of the watch. When I look in Euro I see the price barely changed. secondhand price 3 years ago was about 40-42K, today 3 years laters it's between 41 and 45K. So maximum 10% in  3 years isn't much , is it ?. In USD it might have  got from 50K till 65-70K in the same period but like said that is because the USD lost so much value and the listprice went up year after year. And why did the 5980/5960 loose value. Simply because some people want to pay a huge premium when a hot watch is just  released. They offer 20% above listprice and after a few years when these watches are easier to get they will drop 25% under listprice.

A very thoughtful and constructive item

well..i am most impressed and appreciative...I was at the recent Miami Show and did buy a 5960P...this is a terrific site and I rarely, if ever, participate...but biten by the Patek bug....thanks again bruno.
by the way--there were about 10 on the floor and ranged NIB $54k-$70k...I know that list is $78k....

Carl