Patek Philippe

I'm recently interested in nautilus, i'm planning to purchase it. My choice is down to 5980 and 5712R.
Which one is better / more collectible, any suggestions guys? Thanks a lot

You'll have the answer, and the only one which counts, when you see them both.

As for collectible watches, forget this concept.

Would you jump on an ugly watch just because it is collectible?

Best,

Nicolas

Hey Nicolas, how are you doing? The issue of rarity is a difficult subject. I would tend to disagree with you about it. Would I buy a watch solely because it was rare and expected it to appreciate in value? 100% yes. I would so the same in any asset actually. Many things attract people to watches, and one of them is rarity. For some people, it is the MOST important factor. For others it is totally unimportant. It is all a part of what makes a watch special to the person concerned. Just as some people find the colour of the metal a key issue, I cannot see what is wrong with finding rarity a key attraction.

For me, rarity is one factor and actually figures quite low down the list but it is a factor. However, i tend to seperate my watches from my investments. I buy an investment in order to see it appreciate. I buy a watch for many reasons and not often as an investment. However, if i was to look at a particularly rare watch and considered its investment potential as high, I can't see why i would care at all what teh watch looked like or any of the normal things I would look at if i was buying one to wear.

Rarity has been an issue that has been discussed again and again on these forums. I have to say, although it is only a part of a watch's "DNA", I for one would like to see it accepted as a legitimate part...albeit one that will vary from 0-100% for different people.

 

You won't buy a watch only because it is rare.

Do you see yourself buynig a rare watch even if it is ...Ugly, just because it is rare?

Don't think so.

What I wanted to enhance was that watches are not investments, but, I think, and this is my personal point of view, because of the pleasure they will bring to me, which is priceless.

Therefore, Rarity is a relative concept, and may obey to the rule of the offer and the demand:

If 10 000 000 Pepole want a watch produced at 10 000 pieces, it is rarer than a watch produced at 1 000 pieces, but desired by only 5 000 people.



So , how can you know how many people want the same watch, except reading the Future?

We have so many example of this:

Look at the Story of the Vintage Rolex Daytonas: Quite nobody wanted them till a recent time.

But going on a watch because you're madly in love with, with any other consideration, may be considered as a more secure way to choose your watch, don't you think?

Best,

Nicolas

If I was viewing a watch purely as an investment and saw its rarity as something that would be a key feature of its future investment potential, then yes, I would buy that watch even if i thought it was ugly and had no intention of ever wearing it. As an investment, it has to be dispassionate. But if it is a watch I intend to wear, then there has to be some passion for it. Can rarity fire passion? I don't see why not.

If people buy watches for investment purposes, I see nothing wrong with buying a watch that is ugly. I own Diageo as a an equity investment yet I don't drink spirits or beer. I couldn't care what their products taste like so long as the investment performance does well. There must be a similar dispassionate view on watches for investment too, no? I am not saying that watches should or should not be investment material. For me, they are not. You are clearly in that camp too. Yet, why is it so wrong to appreciate rarity as part of a watch's attraction?

Frankly, when I read a question on "rarity"  and investment regarding certain abundant models I cringe. Generally, when watches do fetch investment grade prices, they are watches that might have had 300 models made over 20 years, so the thought that someone might think of today's common models as potential future fortunes hits me as particularly silly. However, your point has put a spin on puchasing for rarity that I had not considered. It is hard for me to imagine that, for example, anyone purchasing a 5004 could do so without considering rarity. Why else would someone pay such a premium over a 3970/ 5970 for a split second function. I dare say, most will not actually use this function. Even in appreciating the art, I would imagine, if truth is told, rarity is the basis for the purchase. Your point is well made, and although I will continue to groan as I hear the question as to which Nautilus is a better investment, I have a new appreciation of why some of us do as we do.

                                       William

better. I am just not a bracelet guy . As far as which is more collectable they are both desired watches but neither are all that rare or hard to get so I would not let that influence your decision.

Your wrist and your eyes are your best advisors (as well as your wallet lol)

I posted a similar question about three months ago and was given a similar answer.

It is true, you cannot possible predict which watch will became collectible- many factors come into consideration- of course one may try to guess and estimate but tastes and horology evolves. You should also bear in mind that a watch might be very desirable, be a true limited production, be very sought after and then after some years pass, it might "fade" away.

So buy which one inspires you the most and then "pray" for luck.

For me, a investment in a watch is if I enjoy it and if it proves to be something that I truly over over the years I will pass it along to my son or daughter and it will became a family jewel- and that, for me is the best possible investment
Cheers

I LOVE THE NAUTILUS!!! i own the 5980 and 5712/1A both fabulous watches...i could go on and on but won't..in brief the 5980 is a bit bulky but has beautiful presence on your wrist and looks absolutely amazing when it's sunny and one is casually dressed (white linen shirt, linen trousers, John Lobb loafers....looking sharp!!). i wear mine each and every weekend. The 5712 is a more dressier watch fits perfect on tour wrist and your shirt just slides over it...it sometimes feels your not even wearing a watch at all....but when you look at the dial it is just amazing the different colours you can see with the 3 areas of the watch (power reserve, moon phase and seconds dial)..i wear mine to work mon - fri. Overall you cannot go wrong with either...but i would suggest for you to consider 5712/1A and not 5712R.

R's

Sid

...and nothing else. As you can see, I am saving my LAST spot for 3700.

.... in terms of rarity, my choice might possibily be Patek ref. 3711wg.  Seeing the time of production, the case metal plus a Nautilus wg bracelet, I would put this ref. number to be on the top in this series.  As for my own collection, ref. 3800/1A still is a bundle of fun.

I have NEVER seen either one of those Nautiluses! Are they mechanicals? Or quartz? Very purty.

I love this watch. It is comfortable and rare.  It would depend on your collection but, I think the 5980 is more wearable than 5712R

5712R is nice but not necessarily very easy to wear, very "flashy".

I was going to get a 5711/1A last year but decided for the 5711G instead, for that kind of price I wanted gold and the the White Gold color is beautiful !

If you're buying it to put it in a safe, then you're on the wrong forum. If you're buying it because you love to wear it, then this is THE place for you. Before the economic burst, the 5980 was going for twice its price. Now, you can get it just about at list. Unless you can tell the future, but it because you love it.

The 5980 is an in-house movement, not a Lemania base as their other chronos. Same movement as the 5960. 5980 is a lot larger in person but still wears well on the wrist.

Personally, I prefer the 5712/1A.

MHO.

Bob

. I have had the same question. IMHO, 5712R is dressy watch. Looks great if you wear it out to night time social events (party). 5980 is very sporty watch and will not be appropriate to wear in a more formal occasion. I first had a 5712ss, then got another 5712R because I just couldn't resist the looks of it. Then just last week, I got 5980. I guess I will let go of the 5712ss in future because it is more or less same feeling as the 5980. In terms of collectible, I wish all of the above will be. They all look great. You should try it in real metal, believe me.