Patek Philippe

It is often said that the annual calenders are not a true horologist's watch but i can't see what is the difference with say a perpetual calender?

in fact, there seems to be a hierarchy even amongst ADs with calatravas & 24s,  then 'simple' complications such as 5146s and then perpetuals and chronographs.

the 5146 however seems to be a complication that is fairly reasonably priced - particularly nowadays as ADs appear to be awash with them - with more bangs for your bucks.

Only practical difference with perpetuals as far as a newbie and complete novice/ignoramus like myself can see is that it has a thicker mechanism and lacks am/pm (??what use is this anyway).  also, needs changing calender once yearly but need servicing anyway.

however, it gains a power reserve indicator and maybe half the price of equivalent perpetual.

 

any thoughts?

Honda's are wonderfully well made and the eclass isn't really any better..  There's just a certain subtle something - a lineage and history that gives the benz it's advantage over the highly capable, more moderately priced honda. The 5146 is just too comon and too plain for many afficianados to rush to purchase. 

Not for me at least but I see what you are trying to get at.  I'm still in for an Annual Cal and te 5056P in particular if I can find one in good condtition with papers.  Looks good to me.

very intelligent analogy from aptly named nothing but time.

Using the same, i see the comparison more as one of 'e-class merc against e-class merc' as both are pateks 'rather than merc vs honda'.  the only difference that a true newbie like me could see is that one merc has manual gear (annual calender)  & the PC has auto gearbox. however, the manual gear box merc has a power indicator , the auto doesn't .

and you can buy at least two manuals for price of the auto!

The AD tells me that same amount of metal goes into both; i presume craftsmanship is at its zenith in both, & perhaps the 5146 dial looks slightly 'tidier' to me.

you pay soooo much more just for that extra day once every 4 years...

i feel the 5146 is a great value for what it is..

With very few other brands have their own niche in the market.

Virtually every major brand has its own Perpetual Calendar watch.

But how many of them have within their range an Annual Calendar?

Just my observation on the question asked.

it's not about bang for the buck...if you want to save $, buy the casio...

it's about having a device that can keep track of thew days of the month and when leap years occur ad doing all this by purely mechanical means....


the AC's are beautiful, but it's still a different animal than a perpetual...

5398, 5146, 4937, 5135

and there are a lot of 5146 out there. It is a VERY nice watch but you'll find them at every dealer. The annual Patek is like the Rolex submariner. Very popular but not difficult to get. A friend of mine has one and I love this watch.

 

I'll try to make an foto essay of this one too

 

But you could also include the Calatrava range and to a degree the 5140

Nearly every AD that I have visited in recent months will have a good range of all these models

 

 

but this is why I compared is with Rolex' Submariner.

The Calatrava is like the Rolex Datejust. I think most people who don't care about watches like we do would buy a Calatrava or a Datejust. Imo the submariner is much more special than the Datejust and the annual calendar is much more intresting than a 3 hands Calatrava. At a Rolex shop you'll find a dozen of Datejusts and only a few Subs. The PP dealer will have dozens of Calatrava's but probably no more the 2 or 3 5146 annual calendars. After all the 5146 is a very nice COMPLICATED watch !

I guess everyone seems to say ADs are awashed with Annual Calendars, but i also think it is not that different for Perpetual Calendars. Most ADs have at least have a couple of Perpetual Calendars put in the safe, hoping to move the Annual Calendars first. They do not put them on the 'roadside display window' but definitely you'd be able to find them being displayed in store and they would take it out of their safe in a wiff if you do ask!

Other then that, i think both AC and PC are equally good, and it appeals to different people. AC are good for those who like a complication, and not being fussy about adjusting the watch,a dn PC is also great, as it gives the user great comfort of mind. But heads up, i'd gladly go for the PC as it has that 'watch winder box' so i need not make space on my current winder which is at gull capacity!

While you may never go to any GTG and be the hi light of the party with a 5146, if you like it you should buy it as opposed to paying 20k more for a perpetual. I have a friend that wears his 5146 daily and he has many watches that would be considered far more collectable. I once asked him why he wears this watch so often, and his reply was "it does everything I need it to do on a daily basis and when I think patek I think of this watch" and I have to agree with him.

good luck if you decide to get a 5146, its a great watch that will stand the test of time.

Patek of course ! They made AC popular so its wrong to say 5146 is not an afficianado's watch.

 

George

hi, i agree i have a pp51451j that i ware every day. i think is a beautiful and usable watch. why it is not the favorite of afficionados i do not know, but maybe because is more popular than the pc's. howver i also like the size of the 5146 most of the pc's are 37mm. maybe patek should cut the production of ac's so they bocome more collectible to afficionados. thanks jorge

...and they are very useful as well. By nature, afficianados tend to prefer the the most sophisticated level of a certain complication category and I believe PP is very much aware of this fact. I believe afficianados are right to think so since PCs are prior to ACs historicaly; therefore ACs are considered as compromise. If some ADs are keeping the PCs in the safe rather than the display window, it might be because of  adding a touch of mystery thus positioning them as collectible rareties rather than daily wearers. And in the price range of 70+ K, I personaly wouldn't prefer to buy a watch from the display window anyway. Actually now days more and more ADs are displaying PCs - especially the 5140s - at the window. Can it be because almost all the PP enthusiasts are focused on hunting a N. Lemania powered chrono or chrono perp. before they are discontinued and therefore it is wise from the marketing point of view to remind them of the good old 5140? Or is it because that as the economical crises hit stronger, nobody has the patient to wait for a true afficionado to came and ask for a "fictiously rare" perp.? And since everybody is asking for a serious discount, what is the use of keeping your stock in the safe? I sincerely don't know the real reason. But the fact is, nowdays you see PCs everywhere and a significant discount is considered a normal case.
As for ACs, I personaly like them very much; not only 5146 but 5396 too. I would also love to have a 5350 and 5450 if it would be possible. And I am very much aware that price range of an AC is there to prepare my mind to spend double on a PC. This is why the intermediate price levels exist; to prepare your mind for the higher. The question is: Would I buy a 5140 (or a 5159) although I know the price difference is hard to justify, at least from the practical point of view. Honestly speaking I would; not a 5159 but 5140 for sure. In fact I had planned to do so untill the gossips obout the discontinuation of 5070 and 5970 became more and more believable. Now I am focused on getting one of them before they disappear from the market and thus skipping a stage in purchasing trend.
Summary is: I believe PP ACs are beautiful, very well engineered and very useful complications. They are logically priced in the whole PP range and they do not deserve to be underestimated just because that they are easily achievable. Here are some pictures of them, just to remind you of how beautiful they are...

Sincerely

Ahmet

With regards to difference of craftmanship/workshop between AC & PC

I would think that apart from the additional complication of the PC.

That there is no difference on the question of craftmanship etc.

...and I totaly agree with you about the quality of the craftmanship. This is the case with all PP watches anyway. Even the simplest caliber has excactly the same quality with the most complicated.

Sincerely, and happy new year.

Ahmet

I really  LOVE this one, the yellow gold with this dial is stunning

 

Lots of responses to this post, and very quickly from many parties, so maybe the original poster in NYC touches on an interesting collectors nerve.. 

The saying goes that we all know exactly what we are going to do, instinctively, even before we do it.  Every decision we make, is secretly made in the back of our mind, long before we actually say the decision aloud, or before we are actually honest with ourselves about the decision we've made.  Perhaps in such an instinctive way we perceive that rarity is better, or that old-school technology is more purist than new-school. Somehow we all know (or convince ourselves) that PC is better than AC.. that Mercedes is better than Honda - and that blondes really do have more fun

Of course there is one AC I like very much..  the 5960.  Then again, that model has a chrono and comes in platinum with some very historical aesthetics, so maybe there are some other mitigating characteristics which convinced my psyche to purchase it  

 

 

bruno, i have seen this in the flesh and the color combination is simply stunning, let alone its value which is priced very realistically for such a watch.

Mech.

very grateful for such  varied and truly informative replies.  Obviously very topical and contentious.

Visited 3 ADs whilst on visit in london, england & they truly are awashed with 5146s including that absolutely stunning 5146J with matte slate dial. heavily discounted on these as well as PCs, but more forthcoming on the ACs.

I am going to put them on my wrists in different lights and then see which kind of shines out to me, i guess.

i do wonder in terms of craftsmanship and workshop time, how much more is involved with the PCs vs ACs;  as you can see, i'm truly ignorant on all aspects of watchmaking although i do own a range of them - chosen according to how i like the look & feel of them (!!) as well as their pricings.

Hi Bruno, I own this one. My only modern yellow gold watch ( other than a few antique gold omega dress watches from the 1950 's ) as I prefer white metal ( precious metal and steel ) watches . This 5146 J is stunning in my eyes and on my wrist.In the flesh the yellow gold is less yellow and more pink in hue due to the slate dial when compared the 5146 J with white dial. One other point regarding the desirability of a Patek AC is that , when designing the movement, PP chose to use gears rather than levers and hence the AC movement has more parts than the equivalent PP Perpetual Calendar movement. To me, this PP AC
movement is something significant ( patent awarded in 1996 ) in Pateks history IMHO.