A. Lange & Söhne

I am on the search for a simple two- or three-hand dress watch, with a diameter of 38-40mm and in pink gold. I have narrowed the field to five possible candidates; the VC Patrimony Traditionelle Small Seconds, VC Patrimony Contemporaine (hand-wound), Lange Saxonia Automatic, Lange 1815 (38.5 mm) or the Lange Saxonia Thin. Presently I'm leaning towards one of the 3 Langes, rather than the VCs. Something about the Lange design language and aesthetic speaks to me more viscerally than the VCs. Day-to-day, I don't normally wear a jacket and tie to work, and rarely something more formal than a shirt and trousers, so I'm looking for something that can dress up or down, and will suit a smart but casual workplace.  Other current "flexible" watches in my rotation include an AP RO Dualtime and JLC Grande Reverso Duo, both in stainless steel. What say the Lange aficionados? Photos of the 3 Langes posted below: This message has been edited by academe on 2014-03-16 08:51:06 This message has been edited by academe on 2014-03-16 09:03:10

No message body

....almost had me sold. But there's special and lovely about the Saxonia Thin's minimalist simplicity. And the Saxonia Auto looks great on the wrist, too...

The 1815 is a watch which is superior to the Saxonia.

First of all, I would choose a handwind movement. And the movement of the 1815 is superb, with a great pleasure to wind it. Ans in an aesthetic point of view, it has much more character than the Saxonia.

The 38,5mm 1815 is a great watch, I would not hesitate.

The only remark I have is to know when the watch will be available since it was unveiled this year.



More pics here:
basel.watchprosite.com

Fx

No message body

I understand that Lange are known for their hand-wound movements, (hence the recommendation over the automatic) but what is it about the 1815 movement that makes it superior to the movement in the Thin? Or, are the aesthetics the primary driver of the recommendation of the 1815 over the Saxonias? I am not in a hurry to make the purchase; I was probably looking at picking this up sometime next year, so instant availability is less of an issue. This message has been edited by academe on 2014-03-16 12:19:28

The movement of the 1815 is very nice to wind while the movement of the saxonia Thin (even if it is more appealing due to its visible parts) doesn't have the same architecture: it has a larger and thinner barrel which makes it less nicer to wind, at least it is my point of view.

About the Saxonia Automatic, it features a central rotor movement. Honestly, I would recommend a watch with a sax-o-mat movement with 3/4 rotor...

For these reasons: go to the 1815.



Fx

 

I've only handled the hand wound 37mm Saxonia and the 40mm 1815, and that was long enough ago that I can't remember the physical sensation of winding them. I have still to see the Thin and new Saxonia Automatic in person, as I have no AD nearby.  The new 1815 is probably a better fit for my narrower wrists than the larger 40mm, but would like to try them both if  possible. 

I will not re-state the arguments already, as they are spot-on. I would personally choose the 1815 given your situation as the numerals would make the watch a bit more casual in my eyes versus the baton-indices of the Saxonia models.

Although you have given the choices available, I have to ask if you considered the Richard Lange? It fits your criteria of ~40mm and a 3-hand watch. I made the jump on this piece earlier in 2013 to complement my Lange 1's and have not regretted it for a second.



I like your no-rush approach, and wish you the best in your decision.

Colton

...Thought I have for whatever reason been a little on the fence about Roman numerals, for whatever reason. I will need to try one!

No message body

I would choose the 1815, because it shows more character and offers lots of Lange DNA.

The first ones (36mm) offered an outstanding value for the money, but the latter ones are still good.

You mentioned automatic and therefore I would also have a look at the old Langematik with its superb Saxomat and lots character.

Some pictures of the latter:

WG

PT

RG

YG

(picture credit of the last three pictures: Peter Chong and two others)

Cheers,
Oliver

 

I prefer them to the Saxonia.

You won't go wrong with any.
All are top class dress watches in our times.
I will choose the 1815 amongst them as I love the blued hands and find it more distinctively Lange than the Saxonias.

I have a VC traditionnelle in pink gold. I took a long time to decide that against the Langes too but chose the VC in the end as I also had sights on a Dato then but had no idea what other VC I would choose other than the Traditionelle

Let us know your choice when you get it! Always exciting when a fellow Purist is involved in a hunt

Cheers
Robin

the father of all Lange 3 hand watches and mother of 

Danjam, after! But what about before? If you can find one before you are 98 years old..perhaps it is of no use to you anymore! Well, maybe using a microscope

Cheers

Francois from Down Under 

whilst many say the 1815 is a "starter" Lange watch, i agree and disagree...there are days when you wanna wear a simple 3 hand, and this is it. Having said that, may I humbly suggest the Richard Lange too?

amongst my collection, whenever I want to wear a simple 3 hand watch, for some reason, its always boils down to the RL and 1815.

best,

Horo

...After seeing Colton's post above it has made me add this watch to the list, too. 

Parmigiani is actually a proper manufacture, and in fact does a large amount of contract work for other brands, including some of the most illustrous names that we know!! so i would not fear about servicing etc of Parmigiani.

since you are a owner of a AP Royal Oak, and I assume, sometimes erroneously, that you would be used to bigger and thicker watches...RL would not be something that you cant adjust to easily then...another reason!!

best, Horo

...I had forgotten that Vaucher does in fact produce parts and components for other houses. I did know they were a proper manufacture. I suppose I was thinking in terms of size; they're not as large an outfit as the more established high-end manufactures like AL&S, AP, VC or Patek.

As much as I promote the 1815 I would also strongly recommend the manual Saxonia as it is just perfect in 37 mm.

However, an auto has got its benefits.

I have got an 1815 version already and seriously think many, many days about a Saxonia also.

Good shortlist of watches!

Moritz

If you are able to go down to 37mm, the Saxonia manual offers excellent value for money and is timelessly elegant. The Saxonia ultra thin is a no-no for the following reasons:

1. Although it is only 5.9mm high, the 40mm case with no seconds dial makes the watch look larger than it the other watches with a seconds hand.

2 The winding mechanism as pointed out earlier is less smooth by Lange high standards. I have the new 1815 up and down which has a similar problem due to the longer power reserve on one barrel. I have to wind my watch in excess of 150 turns to fully utilise the 72 hour power reserve.

The Saxonia Automatic at 38.5mm and 7.8mm thick is also a good looking watch but as commented before, the rotor takes up half the movement as compared to the discontinued saxo mat. The question is are you comfortable buying used. Some people are not I understand.

Which brings us to the new 1815 manual in 38.5mm. A very nice watch and arguably better proportioned than the 1815 40mm depending of course on your wrist size.  Many have said that the 1815 is a superior watch to the Saxonia line and in turn the Richard Lange range is superior to the 1815 range. If you look at the catalogue, you will notice that more parts go into the equivalent Richard Lange as compared to the 1815 and again more parts would go into the 1815 manual than a saxonia manual. The Lange proprietary balance spring is used in the Richard Lange but not in the Saxonia. I am not sure about the 1815 manual but I know my 1815 up and down uses the Lange balance spring. What difference does this make? Very little in terms of accuracy as Lange watches in general have a tolerance of +3 -2 (similar to Patek) irrespective of the balance spring used but pyschologically, one may prefer to have a Lange with a manufactured by Lange balance spring.

In conclusion, buy a saxonia manual as you get much better value for money than the 1815 manual but if 37mm is too small, buy the 1815 manual.

Good luck in your purchase. Prices in the far east go up on 1 April so there are some great bargains around with the relatively strong sterling and euro

 

 

For all the reasons put forward!

And shall I tell you what: the Saxonia auto has NOT a 21k rotor.

I checked it on the Lange website: Saxonia Annual Calendar has got one, Saxonia Perpetual has got the 21k stamp on the rotor.

But not the Saxonia auto ... not.

I fully agree with you: the Saxonia manual is a much, much more value for money watch and simply sweeeet!

Best

Moritz

...Many good points here, that echo others' thoughts. However, I'm not entirely persuaded by the argument that 40mm is too large for a contemporary ultra-thin. The VC Patrimony Contemporaine, VC Traditionelle Automatic (using the calibre 1120) and it's cousin the AP Jules Audemars Extra Thin are all examples of 40-41mm thin watches that (on the right wrist) scale well. Not to mention the Piaget Altiplanos... However, I understand your point; care does need to be taken with these larger diameter thin watches, particular for those like myself with narrower (6.5-6.75") wrists, as there is the danger of the watch looking a bit too much like a dinner plate in the wrist!

Just a follow-up regarding the new Saxonia Automatic. Given how well-liked the older version was among collectors, with a microrotor, why has AL&S opted for a full-sized rotor in their newer offerings? I've noticed that many of the newer automatic AL&S watches have been sporting the larger rotors.

The objective is to enlarge the power reserve (now: 72 hours). In order to manage to do it without making the movement height too thick, Lange used a thin and very large barrel. So a central rotor was required since there was any room left for the 3/4 rotor.

Best.

Fx

 

of the movement? It makes me wonder how much the "normal" Lange owner (if there is such a thing!) takes the movement aesthetics this into account (relative to watch geeks like ourselves)?

No doubt about this.

Fx

...because I wanted something with a bit more wrist presence, but I understand that the Saxonia hand wound wears large because of the slim bezel. Any reflections of the aesthetics of the movement, winding, etc.? Again, lack of nearby dealership means that I have to plan a trip to London or possibly overseas to find a showroom which stocks Langes...