A. Lange & Söhne

I particularly note the sharp decline in Dato prices. Its disturbing. Are they flooding the market ? Can't figure it out

Because market prices don't affect one bit my love for this marque, which IMHO is still the ULTIMATE best watch manufacture in the entire world.

Don't be bothered too much about it too Philippe, just enjoy the brand!

Cheers

Stephen

Right now there are just more sellers than buyers people are selling because they need the  money and people are not spending because they want to hold on to what cash they have.

Its a great time to buy if you have ample cash but then again there are people that I know who have cash and do not want to spend ten cents.

 

A 1815 moonphase, a Cabaret platinum with a black dial, a Luna Mundi Set, and a RL PLM or not, at 60 % off the retail, please do not forget to send me a PM...

Best,

Nicolas

,please,  for a RG Richard Lange at 60% off ;-)

Gute Nacht,
Martin

With my pt grande I d have the 3 metals!!!!Thats my grail!!!!!Mo.

A couple are floating around at a price point which I guess I'm not comfortable with but that is just me.  The 1815 moonphase is the first Lange piece that really grabbed (and I mean really grabbed) my attention.

No message body

No message body

1. there is the perception that it is always available hence diminishing the retention aspect of collecting for some...
2. some minority of people who bought the vaunted Datograph got tired of it for one reason or another hence have just started dumping them in search for their next new "love"
3. in times of economic turmoil, herd mentality becomes more rampant than usual and all professed commitments/love for something usually falls by the wayside and people revert to something more concrete in their psyche. In watches, the marquee names with absolute certainty to maintain at least a modicum of residual value unfortunately is not Lange. The fans are growing for ALS but that is not enough just yet to cement that. Perhaps with time, or should I say, enough history behind Lange can it start to have the clout AND history some of those other watch brands have. Then will we see secondary market pricing firm up. Just my own two cents

Why is it disturbing to you?  This is for me a hobby, a nice hobby indeed, and it has little to do with investment value or monetary gain/loss from it  because I open the wallet for love.  It is the "cost" to enjoy life, which just happened to be partially recoverable as a bonus when disposed unlike many other hobbies.  A few more points are:
(1) It is happening not only to ALS but across the board.  Any asset/property price tend to go up and down.  It is called "cycle" and most of the time, the market adjusts itself - so the price today may be (what is percieved to be) the right one and can remain for a very long time.
(2) If the secondary price is dropping, so should the primary market - you should get better deal from AD or gray market dealer to absorb (some of) the "theoretical loss" which may or may not actually materialize in the future in case you decide to sell it.  It is really a good time to be a buyer.

Like Stephen well put, among all the watch brands which are "suffering" price down in the secondary market, ALS is one of a few, very few, reliable and well worth one that will pass the test of the time.  Stop worrying and just enjoy!

Ken

No message body

I wouldn't be buying watches if I were worried about their resale value. Why would that be a factor in one's enjoyment of watches?

Regards,

iAn

No message body

high end watches are setting too high and in a unstable economy, people are re-assessing the intrinsic value. it is now not surprise to find LNIB watches of top brand at below 50% of list price, and seond tiers - 30% or below in the secondary market. I think it is currently the best time in the last 5 yrs to buy watches in the secondary market.

that the ownship of a ALS is its own reward. My Dato is going nowhere. But I know that certain brands are more savy at keeping the value of their watches high, e.g. Patek Philippe. You don't see 5070s' selling for half of retail on the secondary market.  They control their numbers and perception of being a rare creation.  I think that is important even if you simply enjoy the Dato for the great watch it is because if LNIB price is half MSRP, ADs will eventually see their sales collapse (hey, I bought mine 2nd hand, are you going to spend 65K for a watch at the AD when you can get the near equivalent for 33 K from a known and trusted source).  If that happens ALS suffers and the perception of all ALS products will be diminished no matter how superb their creations are.  Even a wealthy person doesn't want to see the product he just purchased drop in half by crossing the threshold of the AD. No one wants to buy a luxury item that they can find in the equivalent of a Target or Walmart pricing situation.  Just feel that the brand deserves better and that  better management would keep their products up in the primary as well as the seconday market. In a word, w/o strong secondary prices, AD prices cannot be sustained (i.e. remember Breguet of the nineties).

I do think Lange can do something about this situation though not necessary a 'need'.
Personally, I think Dato is a WIS chronograph. It is the Top of the Very BEST though I hate the luminous hands ;-)
Some collectors I know get tired of it rather easily because it is considered a rather 'common' piece , it lack of the 'rare' appeal.
The only pieces Lange have that keep its value really well are some of their limited editions.
I do feel like if Lange decides to stop producing Datograph, the secondary market of this watch will improve tremendously.
But then I'm not sure how possible is that?
Just look at Journe watches, its retail price and its secondary prices are disconnected too. Same issue I guess, lack of 'rarity' appeal though super excellent watch.
*CL

nt

A few factors may be at play:

1.  I don't think Lange prices are actually falling hard.  From what I have seen they have remained relatively stable compared to decreases in more speculative watches.  The hit right out the AD door means that these watches are really value plays in the secondary market, and they remain such.  My perception is that Lange holds value as well or better than most watch brands.  Maybe not if compared to Rolex and Patek, but these are the exceptions, not Lange.

2.  The market for this WIS brand remains relatively smaller (though more passionate) than most brands.  I believe this will gradually continue to change over time as more and more realize there is almost nothing like a Lange.

3.  As mentioned, Lange seems reluctant to discontinue some iconic watches.  Very understandable, but this hurts the value of those watches on the secondary market, and consequently also at the AD. 

4.  Relatively consistent production of limited editions means some collectors look past normal production but amazing watches.

 

My AD just informed me that Lange has adjusted their retail prices - lower by about 8%.  Not sure whether it applies to all models.

If this is true, then IMHO, Lange has made a wrong move.  Lange should work with their AD on the discount structure instead of their retail price.  This is also a lesson to all watch brands that they can't just happily increase their retail prices without any solid grounds.

Well, secondary market price is not important to some but which owner will complain if their watches fetch good price in secondary market.

Regards

Ling

raise their prices very much over the years.  A lange One was $19,800 in 1994, and only $27,800 now.  That's a 40% increase over 15 years, or about 2.2% each year.  That's not bad at all.  Patek on the other hand.....

back in 1994 and that of now, the difference would be much wider. Nevertheless, I agree to you when comparing to others brand, the raise is still "reasonable"

Just like there're many watches catering to many different tastes of owners, there're many pricing approaches to getting/owning these beautiful pieces.

For every one who enjoys the ultimate priviledge of paying the premium of buying it brand new, first in line, ride a limo and collect his beloved pieces from the awaiting AD with great warm reception, there would be happy line of people feeling equally good paying less buying from these folks later on. Nic I hope you're right when one could get a PLM at 60% off hahaha.

These still do not affect one's enjoyment of owning one ultimately. You just need one approach that offers you the best feel good feeling of obtaining and wearing your dream watch.

Just my take,

Mech.

This message has been edited by manitouman on 2009-08-14 01:47:32