Breguet

Hi, I just bought a Breguet Type XX alarm Transatlantique Ref 3860, it looks like a pilot watch but with alarm function. Can anybody give some info on the watch. I could not find much info anywhere. The salesman told me it is a limited edition sold only in the Japanese market. is this true ?.
Thanks in advance

1350 if I'm not mistaken.

I thought it was a pretty goodlooking watch and do not know why Breguet stopped production.

However I believe it was part of their regular production (unless yours has a special dial or feature specially designed for the Japanese market)

...an A. Schild movement for the Type XX alarm and a Lemania for the Classique alarm, or Lemania for both? It seemed that the Classique could set both hour and minute.

Lemania movement. I'll check for the movement used in the Classique and get back to you.

Now, misinformation can even come from the manufacturer!



Seriously, it is possible that the XX also uses a Lemania alarm movement, in a slightly different configuration, though this is not very likely. Wristwatches (Brunner, Pfeiffer-Belli) list the Breguet cal. 579 as being based on the Lemania SL 980 Memomatic, and I suspect that the majority of internet sources who quote the XX as having a cal. 579 and being automatic are simply blindly (mis-)quoting secondary sources.

AS did produce an automatic alarm movement as well, the cal. 5008, but it is quite different from the Lemania caliber. The SL 980 used one barrel for both the alarm and the timekeeping; the cal. 5008 used two barrels, a more conventional approach to alarm watch power trains.

I do not believe Lemania ever made a manual alarm movement.

Dennis, if we could get a movement picture, it would definitely help to settle this once and for all.

Regards,

TM

Hi, alex, Dennis.

Dennis - is yours automatic or manual?

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion regarding the movement in the Type XX version of the Breguet alarm wristwatch.

For sure, Breguet has released at least two models of an alarm wristwatch, one of which is based on the Lemania automatic movement which was also used by Omega as their Memomatic in the 1970's -


ref. 3600

The Type XX, on the other hand, is a different model -

ref. 3860

From the position and style of the crowns, I would be tempted to agree that it is a manual A Schild movement, but quite a number of people, who are otherwise reliable about their information, have inconsistently referenced the cal. 579 as manual (Eddie/Malaysia) or automatic (certain well known auction houses, usually reliable Japanese dealers, internet watch trivia guru SSS) An internet dealer from New York described one he had for sale as automatic as well, though his information is not usually reliable. (note the crown and pusher configuration of the Lemania based automatic alarm in the upper picture, as opposed to the two crown design of the lower picture of the XX)

Except for SSS, most others name the cal. 579 as the movement in the Type XX.

Alex, when so many otherwise reliable sources of information are so inconsistent and mutually contradictory, I think it is time to do a little more fact checking...

Regards,

TM

the "office people", I'll give a call to the head of their ateliers and try to see if I can get clearer information from him.

Yes the alarm I had was the 2nd picture below and a single alarm, it appears that the alarm setting is a little different from the normal AS5008, you are required to pull out the crown at 2 o'clock and set the alarm using the crown at 4 o'clock unlike the others where you set the alarm from the alarm crown directly.

Yes, the XX model, ref. 3860, with SINGLE alarm indication is based on the AS 5008 (as confirmed by Breguet USA to Andy Thurman back in Sept 27, 2002.)

I believe I have seen a XX cased DUAL ALARM indication, which means that it had the Lemania SL 980, which is not surprising, as Breguet and Lemania were at one point under the same umbrella company Groupe Horloger Breguet (GHB) - but this definitely was not a standard model, if it exists at all.

The other alarm wristwatch, the ref. 3600, used the Lemania SL 980 for sure, and can be identified by the dual alarm indicator dial (see post below)

And I think there was a miscommunication with Breguet and alex - the cal. 582 is indeed a Lemania based caliber (Lemania cal. 1352, in fact - a cal. 1357 chronograph with flyback function) but it is used in the Type XX chronograph, not the XX alarm.

Regards,

TM

Hi, Dennis,

Though overall production was quite low, even for Breguet, the Type XX alarm was officially available through US dealer channels for a short period of time.

It is possible that Breguet released a specific limited edition variant for the Japanese market, but the general model was not Japan market only.

Regards,

TM

God, only a WIS-nerd...



TM

after speaking with a person in the Breguet ateliers here's the answer I got regarding the movement in the Type XX R?veil:

Breguet Cal 579 based on Lemania 2980

b

.

v

Type XX alarm and Classique alarm's movement dimensions and jewel count when next you're speaking to your Breguet contact? That would presumably help establish as to whether the two watches share a common movement (which is what I was told over a year ago by someone in Breguet UK... although they also told me to not take what they said as gospel, as they weren't sure themselves).

Regards,

Andrew.

I have since traded my alarm- a really nice watch, btw. But Bruget definitely told me it was an A. Schild. HOWEVER, having owned several Omega Memomatics, I believe them to be the same movement because they look and set the same way, which would make it the Lemania, right?

correct?

1) That both used the Lemania Memomatic movement (or variant) and Breguet/Lemania simply changed the configuration (alarm indication/some internal gearing and lever/springs)

2) They both used different Lemania alarm movements, but used the same Breguet calibre number (this possibility is really irritating to me as a collector and amateur historian, but is not unheard of. AP recently did this with their large Jules Audemars tourbillon chronograph...) But according to all sources I recall seeing, Lemania only made one alarm movement...(my memory has been faulty of late, of course...)

A third, more likely possibility (though perhaps not, given Andy's most recent comments) is that this continues to be a miscommunication from Breguet...

Maybe it's time for me to get ahold of each version and do a tear down...John, your bench cleared, my friend?



TM

"curiouser and curiouser..."

if you send me two Breguet (one of my favorite brands)alarm (my favorite complication) watches I'll see what I can do.

_john

I was unsure as to what movement the 579 is based upon, although I too initially thought that it would have been the Lemania used in the pervious Classique model (and I'm unsure why they wouldn't use that Lemania... the only reason that occurs to me is that the Lemania movement would have made the watch too expensive). Good detective work, Alex.

I don't usually like rose gold watches, but this watch looks fantastic in rose gold.

Regards,

Andrew.

Found a link to a Japanese web site selling the watch.
My is the second one in the list of picture. Anyone care to explain what the caption is saying ?.

BTW the watch is an automatic winding for both the watch and the alarm function.

http://dec.sakura.ne.jp/~sal/BREGUET-WATCH.html

Thanks

Rare "ohrudo remania mufumento" (old Lemania movement).
Ca.579 filled. Worldwide limited 70 pieces.

Or something like that...
Melvyn

Do you still have the Type XX alarm? If so, would you consider selling the piece? Let me know. Thanks, Chris

This post is 8 years old. I doubt his author will see your answer.

Best,

Nicolas. This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-10-16 23:18:54