PoyFR
2842
Argh those unsigned dials and movements, to me a timeless mystery, ?
I my little investigations and researches at Panerai and at the Marina
Militare, it resulted that none of 3646 have
unmarked dial or unmarked movements at least and specially those pieces destined
and delivered to Panerai or the Marina Militare.
Rolex verbally said that if they delivered other 3646 they should have signed movements.
Within Italy
and Switzerland, this far I never found any traces of the unmarked dials and or
movements.
My Vintage Panerai interests has always been about the Marina Militare pieces,
but I also know that a few, other 3646 do have unsigned movements and or dial,
only a part from
aknowledging
those other pieces, I never and I have yet not found any supports for those pieces.
It appears and
seems that those few unbranded like-Panerai-Radiomir-dial and California dial
with unsigned movements were all delivered to the German market, by who, how
and the whys to me remains a mystery.
You say 'Many Cali 3646 did NOT have Rolex signed movements or casebacks'
- To help me understand your ‘Many’, I need to ask you: How did you come to this; Do you have supports achieves.
Let's have a feast: Please share your nicest Vintage Panerai Radiomirs.
We don't have many opportunities to see real vintage Radiomirs. It could be the moment to see all of them, and they are not so many. I would like to get as possible pictures of this Radiomirs ( Cali or not ) to stick this post as a reference. Of course it...
Am too young
to know what a vintage Pam looks like ;P So I will just camp here to find out and learn .... :D Great Idea btw !
Vintage Panerai are much better than Vintage Pams...
Since the PAMs came since 1997, only. :) Best, my friend, and have fun! Nicolas
ok, I'll play...
Love this dial...wouldn't trade this for anything (well, maybe a 6154...) ...
Thank you so much, my friend Eric. No engravings on your case back?
Do you feel comfortable to share its story with us? Best, Nicolas
Mine isn't vintage but it's my oldest Radiomir!
I need to take new pics of my PAM21. Getting tired of these old pics! Cheers, Anthony ...
The best I know is the SS PAM 21
This one is to me as best as it possibly can be. A PAM 21 SS version :-) The 3646 Xa Flot. M.A.S. 01 (Admiral Ernesto Notari - Museo Tecnico Navale di la Spezia) ...
Thanks, POY, for posting this one.
THE mighty 3646 Xa MAS! Aaaach So! Fantastic to see it on line. A true reference. The one of the very rare one I would happily consider purchasing form the Good Museum! :) Best, Nicolas
The 021 is a grail...
...most likely one of only a few post-vintage Radiomirs I'd die to own ;)
Great pictures of some iconic pieces Nicolas!
What is your concern with the Cali dial? Many Cali 3646 did NOT have Rolex signed movements or casebacks, but cal 618 nonetheless... unless I misunderstood you! Looks correct to me :)
Argh those unsigned dials and movements, to me a timeless mystery, ?
I my little investigations and researches at Panerai and at the Marina Militare, it resulted that none of 3646 have unmarked dial or unmarked movements at least and specially those pieces destined and delivered to Panerai or the Marina Militare. Rolex ver...
There are 10 of these
known in that configuration, California dial and unmarked caseback. Nothing more in this statement than what it is. Cheers my friend, Asi
It is my understanding that nothing was really archived in the Vintage Panerai world....
So we are left to rely on what information we can gather from the pieces known... I would be concerned if there was only 1 Cali 3646 with this configuration, but as Asi states, there are 10 pieces to date that are "sterile".... In my eyes, this Cali dial ...
There are a few other factors to look at, so I wouldn't exclude Nico's concern
Obviously, I am not about to state them here. Cheers, Asi
In my experience leg works always find foot paths, trails and materials
You started in saying many to now a possible 10... Anyway all I say is I have still to find some backings for those unmarked pieces. For example in my book I doubted the ever use of the Panerai 2533 by the marina militare, whom when I asked them (1998) ne...
I think what you meant were Vintage 3646's?
Here's my contribution - sorry for the quality :-( Cheers, Asi ...
Hey Bijo, thanks for sharing yours. One question though...
Can you explain why there is such a difference betweengs the Xmas engravings of the number 1, and yours Xa Mas Nr 40? Obvioulsy not the same. I am always scared about those pieces. LOL! Best, Nicolas
Yes, of course,
My watch is similar to five others I know, all type C (amber color indices, same movement and caseback) dated to 1942-3. One of these watches was belonging to the original diver and we know this engraving was already present in the 1960's. So, we can conc...
Yes
For sure correct until 1945 (wrong side of the fence,,,) but I would presume it is in 'honor' of more than anything else. Maybe an initiative of a unit or a few divers. My watch has been like this since the end of the 80's at least (documented) and since ...
Let's discuss this much more when we meet next...
Post 1943 the Xa Mas is isolated for 2 years, meaning it is no longer then considered Italian or residing within an Italian governed region, therefore no way would have Panerai been able to supply 40,50 and whatever amount of watches to the 'enemies'. And...
It starts to be interesting, guys.
Since the debate has started here, it would be nteresting to read the developments of this interesting, passiionating discussion. It is not often that we have the chance to read something interesting when it comes to Panerai History. Many statements, and ...
Disagree, as it will let the truth, or at least the education out of the game.
But it is of course up to you, guys, to share or to confidentially keep it for you.... Best, Nicolas
A b s o l u t e l y.
You want to walk with us? Learn to stand up. You want to run? Learn to walk. We are always here. Asi
That's the lawyer side of you, ahhhh, the truth ,,,,,
More like 'truths',,,,, Lets not be naive, we cannot educate or learn everything so easy on this board. Every day another piece of this large puzzle comes together. Everyone is invited of course, we even set the meeting point in your town,what more do you...
According to my calculations, it's his turn?
Can't wait to taste one of your Grand Cru's,,,, Asi
I knew I had it.... Xa Mas former frogman Omeris ARPESELLA
The 2 photos below are absolutely not mine. (Photos are I think from Volker WIEGMANN ) NB: If you ever see this watch anywhere, please contact Volker WIEGMANN ...
A sad but inspiring moment in history
That reflects the very best of our community. I wish it was always in this spirit! Asi
I know 4 watches easily identifiable that had the same ending... you know what amazes me
I thought that with our today’s communication abilities they would resurface, sooner or later. One of the pieces is missing since 2004, it is still missing! Sadly so it will probably by much later...
I unfortunately have none to contribute
But those are some very good pieces mon ami! Thanks for sharing! Grazie mille Stephen
A little late to the party, but better late than never :-))))
First up is the 6152/1 with Radiomir dial..... Brevet engraving.... Serial.... Caseback.... Dust cover..... Movement... I tried to capture the Cortebert symbol under the balance wheel..... Next up is the 3646 Type D (Type D according to Volker and ...
Isn't a 6152/1 Radiomir...
"First up is the 6152/1 with Radiomir dial...." ...one of the rarest combos? R E S P E C T ! ! ! :) Next you'll be posting a 3646/Angelus/Radiomir... ;) So who's bringing the 2533 to this party... :D
Best vintage I've seen since...
... going through my new copy of Ralf & Volker's References ;) You guys rock, keep it comin' please! :D
Here is another nice pic for you Nico
the amazing photography of Luciano. One of these watches is mine, YES, looks beter in the pic then in reality,,,, ;-) Cheers, Asi ...
Very nice shot, wOw!
So photos like that it is so easy to convince again those that opted out. Nico are you jumping in or what? LOL
well a couple I know were purchased over a few bottles, this was in the 60's
You never know, next time it could be you.
Beautiful, simply beautiful...
...I ordered their book(s) - Lu told me ~December, I hope they manage it before Xmas :)