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Horological Meandering

Base metal for the Enamel Dial

A very interesting horological tidbit.

Romain Gauthier in a recent interview ( yesterday on youtube “in the metal”) spoke of the complexity of making enamel dials and how factors such as the color mixing and layering as well as temperature plays a crucial part in the final outcome. According to him the very important aspect to ensure the robustness of an enamel dial and its longevity is to use 18K gold dial as the base for the enamel and that both sides must be enamelled to ensure that there is no unequal pressure and warping.

Would be interesting to know which brands use 18k gold as base for their enamelled dials?

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my understanding...enamel can only be done on a precious metal (ex. not on steel)...

By: mahesh : May 22nd, 2021-10:34

i believe Gold with different purity levels might be used but i don't think enamel is done on both sides by any brand (it would increase the thickness of the watch considerably). let us wait for other purists, i'm sure one of them will have good level of ...

Some more info

By: chintu : May 22nd, 2021-13:51

Base dial metal can be Gold, Silver or Copper. There may be alloys, but the three represent the preferred metals for their properties. That it is enamelled on both sides is also confirmed. This is known as “contre èmaillage” ( counter enamelling) when the...

Here is an article that can explain some things...

By: John-E-Mac : May 22nd, 2021-11:12

. All the old pocket watches with enamel dials probably don't have base gold dials. Think about all those old road or advertising signs. Le Creuset enamel ware is cast iron. Just have to match the glass to the base material. -John

Exactly. There's just so many ways to do it ... base metals/alloys, enamel mixtures/recipes (silica, soda, lime, borax, ...), temperatures, etc...

By: Zilch : May 22nd, 2021-13:21

Enamel on cast iron is not comparable

By: chintu : May 22nd, 2021-14:10

Watch dials have to be without any blemish or even a speck of trapped dust or bubbles and are unimaginably thin, besides the color having to be exact and uniform. The dials cannot have any camber or even the mildest un-evenness across the entire surface. ...

Have do disagree...

By: John-E-Mac : May 22nd, 2021-15:47

Any enameled product, regardless of the base material metal, has to be meticulously cleaned of all oil, dirt and debris for the vitreous enamel to adhere. If any of the enameling doesn't adhere to the base material and there are pockets or voids, it is ve...

If all enamelling works were the same, then...

By: chintu : May 22nd, 2021-16:03

there would be no basis for an enamel watch dial alone to command an extra price of $20k while an enamelled cast iron cookware costs $100 and an enamelled pen circa $1000. And so it goes...where a Faberge egg would cost astronomical sums. If enamelling wa...

There is no correlation to price, value and effort in our little hobby.

By: John-E-Mac : May 22nd, 2021-16:15

You can set up an enameling studio for about $2,500US. Then spend 6 months to a year practicing the art and craft. After that, you can ask your question again. You might have a different answer than you have today. -John

Perhaps...yes

By: chintu : May 22nd, 2021-16:20

I cannot hazard a guess at this stage. For now I tend to believe that enamel dials are complex from multiple perspectives, the build-process, the physical attributes once finished, the decorative artwork incorporated into the dial etc; all of which elevat...

Please don't get me wrong. I don't want to curb your enthusiasm. RG's watches are absolutely stunning in beauty and wonderful technology.

By: John-E-Mac : May 22nd, 2021-16:37

I like how various watch companies put on watch builder classes. It gives customers a real sense what it takes to assemble a watch, plus see how intricate it all is. I think it reinforces the prices they ask. The enameled watches of Patek, VC, JLC and oth...

I think perhaps we might be overstating the need for thinness and perfection

By: cazalea : May 22nd, 2021-15:08

of the base dials, because I have many enamel dials which don't measure up in terms of "flatness" although they were undoubtedly clean when subjected to their enamelling. Cazalea ...

I quote from A.Lange & Sohne

By: chintu : May 22nd, 2021-15:24

“Treatment of the back” “Counter-enamel is applied to the back of the dial. This is necessary to prevent distortion of the enamel on the dial side through excessive stresses.” link: Anordain also states the very same thing To quote: “ At the beginning, b...

Very interesting topic, hope to learn more about this .

By: Watchonthewrist : May 22nd, 2021-16:43

More educational info on enamel dial production

By: cazalea : May 22nd, 2021-19:40

This is from the site honoring Seiko Craftsmen SEIKO ENAMEL MASTER and talking with Mitsuru Yokosawa, who has been making enamel products since 1971 SEIKO MASTER INTERVIEW

Thanks Cazalea for bringing this up.

By: chintu : May 23rd, 2021-01:53

Seiko Presage enamel dials, are acknowledged by Seiko to have rough surface (apart from dimples which are normal). Arita Porcelain dials also have color unevenness as acknowledged by Seiko. Arita dials are also substantially thicker by virtue of their pro...

Thank you so much for sharing this info my friend 🤗

By: Watchonthewrist : May 23rd, 2021-07:58