Patek Philippe: Brand Discussion & Alternatives

Credor · 2022-01-30T01:33:29Z

Explore a collector's bold comparison of the Patek Philippe 5159J and Franck Muller Perpetual Calendar Chronograph. Dive into debates on movement finishing, value, and design in luxury watches.

Credor

WPS member · Independents forum

32 replies7081 views2 photos

Credor's bold comparison of a Patek Philippe Ref. 5159J with a Franck Muller Perpetual Calendar Chronograph sparks a vital discussion on value, aesthetics, and horological integrity. This article explores Credor's initial preference for the Franck Muller's design and complication set, prompting the community to weigh in on the often-debated topic of movement finishing and base calibers in high-end independent watchmaking.

I was considering getting a 5159J. That was before I saw this picture.

Retrograde date vs retrograde months plus a chronograph. This one is just an infinitely better looking and a more interesting watch to my eyes. Yes the 5159J has a better crown, a hinged caseback and probably a better finished movement. Patek wins here.

The Franck Muller for me wins everywhere else. The case is much more beautiful. Looks more substantial. The beefy lugs with the huge screws are simply amazing. Makes the Patek look dainty. The dial layout is much better and more interesting. The blued hands are beautiful. Franck Mullers platinum winding rotor wins over Pateks gold rotor.

This perpetual calendar chronograph Franck Muller presents an incredible value love the perpetual Patek and goes for less than half of what the 5159J goes for.

What are your thoughts? Who do you think wins?

About the De Bethune DB25 Ref. DB25

De Bethune DB25 Reference DB25

The DB25 represents De Bethune's entry in the 44.5mm manual-wind category, distinguished by its silver dial configuration within the DB25 series. This reference launched in 2006 and continues the brand's approach to contemporary haute horlogerie complications.

The 44.5mm case is crafted from 18k white gold with a fixed bezel and sapphire crystal. Water resistance extends to 30 meters. The manual-winding caliber DB2105 movement provides a substantial 120-hour power reserve. The watch features a leather strap attachment.

This reference appeals to collectors seeking De Bethune's technical approach to timekeeping in a precious metal case. The extended power reserve and manual-wind operation position it for enthusiasts who appreciate hands-on interaction with their timepieces. The 44.5mm sizing places it in contemporary proportions within the independent watchmaking segment.

Specifications

Caliber: DB2105

Case: 18k White Gold

Diameter: 44.5 mm

Dial: Silver

Water Resist.: 30m

Crystal: Sapphire

Key Points from the Discussion

The Franck Muller's aesthetic, particularly its retrograde date, retrograde months, and chronograph, is visually more appealing and interesting than the Patek Philippe 5159J, despite the Patek's superior crown, hinged caseback, and movement finishing.
A significant concern for the Franck Muller Perpetual Calendar Chronograph is its movement, which despite the high price, is perceived to be a minimally finished Valjoux 7750 ebauche, unlike other early independents who transformed base movements into works of art.
The Franck Muller 7000 QPE, a perpetual calendar chronograph with equation of time and a unique 24-hour indicator, offers numerous complications on top of its base movement, making its platinum version significantly more affordable than the Patek Philippe 5159J, challenging the notion that brand name alone dictates value.
While initially favoring the Franck Muller's design and finding the Patek Philippe 5159J's readability unconvincing, the visible movement finishing of the Franck Muller ultimately leads to a rejection of both watches.
Franck Muller's reputation for using sub-par movements, often a basic ETA caliber, even in high-complication pieces, undermines their perceived value, making them less of a bargain even at a lower price point compared to Patek Philippe.
The discussion highlights that while Franck Muller's designs can be captivating, the choice of a solid caseback might be preferable to conceal a movement whose finishing doesn't match the watch's exterior or price point.

The Discussion

oyster case

Jan 30, 2022

so the 5159 is my choice. Doubtless though, I can appreciate your enthusiasm for the FM.

Motty

Jan 30, 2022

is a solid company, but I think the hype of it makes it almost impossible to get vs vacheron, frank muller, bulgari, girrard peregax which make excellent and beautiful watches

Tim Jackson

Jan 30, 2022

The FM is a great looking watch. I forget the back view??? do you have it? I'm always curious as to the base caliber FM used on some of his older pieces. Until I know the caliber used on the FM, I wouldn't pass judgement ;-) Cheers, Tim

Credor

Jan 30, 2022

This particular watch has a solid caseback.

Bruno.M1

Jan 30, 2022

I still can’t convince myself buying one… because of the movement. Having a chronograph perpetual is kind of a dream, looking like this FM it certainly is a dream. I love about everything about it. Until you know you’re paying quite a lot… for a simple valjoux 7750 which on top of that looks barely finished. I don’t mind using non in-house mouvements when talking about early independents from the 1990’s. Parmigiani, Daniel Roth, Roger dubuis, … they all used ebauches from piguet, zenith’s (EP),…

MTR

Jan 30, 2022

I also tend to FM as the winner of this match. It’s really beautiful! And in addition to that the readability of the 5159 was not convincing when I had the chance to wear it for a few days. But looking at the movement of the FM reverses my decision 180 degrees. So: none of them for me. Best Thomas

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Patek Philippe: Brand Discussion & Alternatives

About the De Bethune DB25 Ref. DB25

Specifications

Key Points from the Discussion

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